12GA Rounds for Grizz?
- Thread starter Backcountry_IDN
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Thanks, the first time I read them I didn't see near the same report... for others looking... https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/1...g-hunter-says-handgun-saved-him-from-grizzly/
Ouch, bad wound, but... better than the outcome could have been.
Cheers
WildRose
Well-Known Member
He made several near fatal mistakes.
First, approaching the den.
Second, not carrying with a round in the chamber indicating he's not comfortable much less confident in his carry choice.
Third, he was using self defense ammo instead of something designed for hunting or bear defense.
Looking at the shot angle which entered above the ankle of the left leg on the inside exiting through the ankle low on the outside he was probably on his back having falling back on his hind end trying to back away from the bear (4th error).
He's incredibly lucky to have not been alone.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
You have said about all there. I saw that when looking at that the den. I would have left as quickly as possible from that area. Being snow on the ground bear sign should have been around. I am always look of tracks or signs while hunting or any other time while on the ground, or even in a car.
Over 20 years ago I came across a black bear while bow hunting for elk. I had a bear tag too, the bear was a long way from a road. The other was there was a dead small lodge pole pine between me and the bear. I couldn't get a clean shot either.
The worst of it was, I was talking like a cow elk too, as I was moving along. So the bear I thinking was wondering what the hell I was too.
So I hallower at the bear and back away out into the park area. I put several hundred yards of clear area between me and the edge of the woods. Left the area, and stayed in the open for over a mile before going back into the woods. I J hooked in the woods and watch for several minutes, before moving on.
There was lots of black bears in that area too. Montana Fish and Game a couple of years after that moved in Griz. bears into that area.
Generally every or almost every year their somebody gets attach from the Griz. in that part of the state.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
A friend of mind, when on a fishing trip floating down a river in Alaska. The Guide asked if he had a firearm with him. He quickly spoke up. I have a 357mag with me. The guide said that great. If the Brown Bear is coming after you. Stick the barrel in your mouth and pull the trigger. That way you won't feel any pain.
I still feel sorry for the man that shot himself in the leg. It does shown just how bad things can get at the same time.
calling4life
Well-Known Member
So, I've stopped commenting on these types of threads for the most part, people have decided they're happier with the spray and pray technique using a high capacity Glock as their safety blanket, so there's just no point.
But, to point out and perhaps, that's PERHAPS correct something here with this recent 10mm mess of a bear attack.
"Counting the cartridge already in the chamber, he had 14 rounds loaded with 130 grain hard cast bullets in his Glock. "
"Hollow points are meant for stopping people, not bears," he said, adding that it was also fortunate for him that his weapon was loaded with hard cast bullets. "
The article noted he was using a 130gr hardcast, I don't believe there is one.
I can't help but think that may have been a typo and he was using the DoubleTap 230gr hardcast load.
If so, that's arguably as good a "bear defense" load as the 10mm can produce.
By the way, "spray and pray" is the correct derogatory term for people that brag about having 16 rounds and faster reloads, and about being able to shoot 5 shots to your 1 or 2 with your big bore...
Because that is what that is, as evidenced in that story, and in one of the prior 10mm bear stops people like to quote.
Because that guy shot himself as well.
Let's let that guy speak on this some more as well... more quotes
"He also said he favors the high-capacity, semi-automatic Glock over magnum revolvers.
"There isn't as much muzzle rise with the recoil from the Glock," he said. "And you have 14 or 15 shots."
Perhaps had he been more concerned with making one shot count, recoil or not, he would have been better off, but again, he did live, albeit because the bear decided to leave...
Seriously, use a 10mm if that is really your comfort zone, or even just your choice, it's your life, but please understand, pile of empty brass doesn't win the day, "you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight."
You're better off air mailing 15 rounds in the celebration, after you've finished the war at hand with one well-placed shot to the brain.
Though please don't do the celebratory gunfire either.
One shot, in the brain, the time constraint is simple, before it gets to you, and that's it, 20 yards, 10 yards, 10 feet, the reality is, the closer the better. Want proof, put a peach up at 20 yards, fire 10 rounds, put one up at 10 yards, fire 10 rounds, put one up at 10 feet, fire 10 rounds.
How much confidence do you have in hitting it at 10 feet? 100%, how about that 20 yard peach... now what if it were moving
I get it, it's scary, but that's the hand you've been dealt, avoiding it by spraying and praying isn't a strategy, it's placing your life in lady lucks hand, sometimes that works, but that's a hope and a prayer, let's be better given we have a tool to take care of the situation without it.
One shot, in the brain, before it gets to you. And the Brenneke Black Magic slug has a sectional density worse than the 147gr 9mm with the recoil of a 375H&H... get outta here with that too. Carry the 375, heck, cut the barrel to 18 or 20" to make it handier if need be, better bullet selection (understatement of the century, way better), better energy, up your probability drastically.
Anyways, good luck and good hunting, may we never need the backup handgun or whatever we carry.
But, to point out and perhaps, that's PERHAPS correct something here with this recent 10mm mess of a bear attack.
"Counting the cartridge already in the chamber, he had 14 rounds loaded with 130 grain hard cast bullets in his Glock. "
"Hollow points are meant for stopping people, not bears," he said, adding that it was also fortunate for him that his weapon was loaded with hard cast bullets. "
The article noted he was using a 130gr hardcast, I don't believe there is one.
I can't help but think that may have been a typo and he was using the DoubleTap 230gr hardcast load.
If so, that's arguably as good a "bear defense" load as the 10mm can produce.
By the way, "spray and pray" is the correct derogatory term for people that brag about having 16 rounds and faster reloads, and about being able to shoot 5 shots to your 1 or 2 with your big bore...
Because that is what that is, as evidenced in that story, and in one of the prior 10mm bear stops people like to quote.
Because that guy shot himself as well.
Let's let that guy speak on this some more as well... more quotes
"He also said he favors the high-capacity, semi-automatic Glock over magnum revolvers.
"There isn't as much muzzle rise with the recoil from the Glock," he said. "And you have 14 or 15 shots."
Perhaps had he been more concerned with making one shot count, recoil or not, he would have been better off, but again, he did live, albeit because the bear decided to leave...
Seriously, use a 10mm if that is really your comfort zone, or even just your choice, it's your life, but please understand, pile of empty brass doesn't win the day, "you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight."
You're better off air mailing 15 rounds in the celebration, after you've finished the war at hand with one well-placed shot to the brain.
Though please don't do the celebratory gunfire either.
One shot, in the brain, the time constraint is simple, before it gets to you, and that's it, 20 yards, 10 yards, 10 feet, the reality is, the closer the better. Want proof, put a peach up at 20 yards, fire 10 rounds, put one up at 10 yards, fire 10 rounds, put one up at 10 feet, fire 10 rounds.
How much confidence do you have in hitting it at 10 feet? 100%, how about that 20 yard peach... now what if it were moving
I get it, it's scary, but that's the hand you've been dealt, avoiding it by spraying and praying isn't a strategy, it's placing your life in lady lucks hand, sometimes that works, but that's a hope and a prayer, let's be better given we have a tool to take care of the situation without it.
One shot, in the brain, before it gets to you. And the Brenneke Black Magic slug has a sectional density worse than the 147gr 9mm with the recoil of a 375H&H... get outta here with that too. Carry the 375, heck, cut the barrel to 18 or 20" to make it handier if need be, better bullet selection (understatement of the century, way better), better energy, up your probability drastically.
Anyways, good luck and good hunting, may we never need the backup handgun or whatever we carry.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The 10mm is an immensely more powerful round than the 357 and in the semi auto you have a very high likelihood of being able to get multiple rounds into a charging animal quickly. 3 seconds equals five or six shots if you are even marginally capable.
It isn't a rifle or cannon but it's also a whole lot easier to carry.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The guy was an incompetent boob who panicked.
Obviously he was neither confident in his ability, nor comfortable carrying the gun or he wouldn't have had to chamber a round.
The shot angle shows he was probably on his back firing between his legs or being rolled by the bear when it went off.
The multiple shots he landed on the bear saved his life though.
KyCarl
Well-Known Member
A good friend of mine has 2 HK's chambered in 7.62X51 and they will shoot 30 times before the bear can run 30 feet
fill one up with AP ammo and watch any bear fall! And yes he has a 03 FFL
fill one up with AP ammo and watch any bear fall! And yes he has a 03 FFL
calling4life
Well-Known Member
In the article.
"Investigators who came to the scene later didn't find any evidence that the bear had been wounded or killed"
Snow or not, they knew exactly where this took place, didn't find ANY evidence that the bear had been wounded or killed.
Hurry up and miss got this guy got in more ways than one.
I'll keep my nose out of the rest as I've said my peace. We are definitely lucky that in general these things don't feel the need to follow through until we're dead, and that generally, they don't eat us.
"Investigators who came to the scene later didn't find any evidence that the bear had been wounded or killed"
Snow or not, they knew exactly where this took place, didn't find ANY evidence that the bear had been wounded or killed.
Hurry up and miss got this guy got in more ways than one.
I'll keep my nose out of the rest as I've said my peace. We are definitely lucky that in general these things don't feel the need to follow through until we're dead, and that generally, they don't eat us.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
A lack of exit wounds from pistol rounds would make it difficult to tell.
We know the bear only gave up his attrack after the shooting and the "victim" here seems pretty sure he scored several hits.
Put a camera on the den, if the bear doesn't return it's a pretty good bet he was at least hit well enough to chase him from the area.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I didn't say it was good to carry. It was the guide said the best thing to do, with that 357 was to put in his own mouth and pull the trigger. That way no pain when the bear eats you.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
How many firearms are you going to carry in the field?
