1000 Yard Gun - .260 vs 6.5 Creedmoor

[Crusty Buck]

Cold Trigger Finger, 1K? that'll strech your skills. I've never shot that far on purpose. How big are the targets? I think that's a question I'd answer before pursuing a scope. As you know, clearity is worth more than power, but there is a point where power comes to play. I agree that too much power with out a rifle support is un-nerving because you see just how wobbly you really are. It will however, give you a reference point for training yourself. Less power won't make you more accurate, only give you the allusion that you are. Some guys that shoot 1K can get by with a 4-16, others need more. On the other hand, too much power will really emphasize the mirrage. I'd be tempted to try it with a good 5-20 or 6-20. Again how young are your eyes and how big are the targets. I'd like to try a 1K some day.

Crusty Buck

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I'm pretty poor on vision. Can't drive without corrective lenses. Not just legally. I'm over 50 . I also have spine damage that causes plenty of pain when in prone position. But, I still want to do it. I want to stay in the 500$ or less for the scope. Does a guy sling up tight for prone target shooting? ?. I'm thinking a heavy laminated stock would flex less. I don't know big the targets are and as it will be summer, mirage is a possible problem. .

 

[Crusty Buck]

Cold Trigger Finger, At 56 I don't take kindly to laying on the ground either, say nothing of holding a rifle steady without bags or bipod. It's been a long time since basic training, and to be honest I don't think they taught us how to use a sling, just shoot from a foxhole. I bought a Nikon monarch 5-20 with side objective adjustment a couple of years ago for $400 from the the big Italian chain store. They were running special and knocked off a $100. It has worked out well for the most part. The only issue I had was that my 300 win mag had a bit too much recoil for the hardware. It sheared my target elevation knob off right at 500 rds. It still shot excellent, I just couldn't adjust elevation. I sent it back to Nikon and they sent me a new scope. Clarity is better than just acceptable and it tracks beautifully. It is not as clear/crisp as my little bro's Leupold 6-20, but darn near. I like the Zeis, but cost is always a prohibitive for me. Bushnell Elites are equally as clear as my Nikon, perhaps a little bit better, but they don't have an unconditional full warranty. I have been very interested in Cabela's Euro Rifle Scope made by Miopta (Czech), but I haven't got any straight answers on it's warranty. My nehphew says they are very nice, but are in the same price range as Leupold. You guys have a Sportsman Warehouse in Anchorage. There should be some good deals there I think. Vortex has an excellent warranty. Vortex Corporate told me all I had to do was ship back the pieces and they would send me a new one, no questions asked. They are out of Wisconsin and I'm taking a serious look at them this year, but money may be the only drawback. Buying glass, the sky's the limit. Chuck Hawks wrote an interesting article on how much glass the average eye can really appreciate. It's worth the read. Half the fun of these shoots, in my humble opinion, is just getting tooled up and ready for them Life is too mundane to be thinking about work all the time, especially at our age. PS, your idea of a heated box for the chronograph has some serious merit.

Crusty Buck

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I was checking out the Vortex Scopes online. I really like the Burris FF II E1 Scopes. They have a 3.5-10x with 100"of evevation adjustment and adjustable objective. .. .
I need to find a place where I can shoot 1k yards to practice. .
Whatever I use I need it to be usable for hunting also.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Cold Trigger Finger, I can't believe I'm up this late, but this is interesting stuff. I used to live in Greeley, Colorado where Burris scopes are made. They have a reputation of being a darn good tuff scope. Lately, they have shipped alot of their stuff over seas and back. I guess my brother's Leupold is made in the Philipines as well. I really don't know why you would need 100" of elevation for a hunting scope 0-500 yds. unless you were launching 45-70 slugs that far. I had the opportunity to visit your state two years ago. The Alder brush is something else. Even a 2.5 power in that stuff is too strong. Again, it would be good to know the size of the targets at 1K. My 5-20 Nikon is too strong for the brush here in MN and the 20 power too much for the majority of hunting shots. It's gong on my range gun for 500 yds. We have a 1K range about 30 miles from here. The entry fee is sorta steep, but maybe someday I'll get the guts to try it, then we'll see if I need more than the 20 power. I'm looking at replacing my current range scope with a Leupold or Vortex in the 3.5 to 10 range for hunting. I currently have a Weaver V-16 , 4-16 with objective adjustment on my 308. It's a target scope with fine crosshairs that tracks like a dream. I'd sell it at a very reasonable price if your interested, but it's not considered a hunting scope because of the fine crosshairs. It's made in Japan and the glass is excellent. Nuff said abou that. As far as a 1000 yd . range, shoot across a pond, or along the pipeline someplace. Never was to your neck of the woods, so I should keep silly comments to myself

Crusty Buck

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Crusty Buck; I appreciate all the comments. If $$ was no problem I'd get a NightForce. But they are so I won't . I was talking to a friend back east this evening , he's a real sharp young gunsmith. We were talking about rifles. I would really like a detachable mag for a wolf rifle. , the Ruger Scout rifle comes with one. But I don't need a 308 . However he could rebarrel one to 6.5 Creed. I could restock it with a laminate thumbhole and have a little over 1200$ into it before scoping it. .

Should make a great all around rifle. Short of having to dump a brown bear. . But, I digress.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Cold Trigger Finger, The sky is the limit

CB

 

[Crusty Buck]

So back to the original thread, why a Creedmoore over the .260 Remington, or 6.5 Sweede, or 6.5 - 284? What makes this little Creedmoore so darn special?

Crusty Buck

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

For me it's the same as the 375 Ruger Alaskan deal. I like the round because of the rifle it comes in.
Perhaps I'll be able to get the VT model before spring.
I would have been just as happy with the 260 if it was in the rifle I wanted.
From what I've read the 6.5x284 is about 1,000 rounds before a barrel change. Thats not acceptable to me. And I don't need that much speed. New snow machines are spendy, and I need one to get into good wolf country. Kinda limits my rifle budjet. So a factory rifle is the most economical. For me.

The advertising was that the Creed fixed the problems that the 260 had. .I don't know if it did or not. But I sure like mine.

 

[Crusty Buck]

260's are hard to come by, I know. I searched like crazy this past summer for one in a good target/tactical gun. The only one I found was a Savage Long Range Hunter or 12vvs. Too much $. I haven't heard of any issues with the 260, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. What have you heard?

CB

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Too much bullet shank intruding into the powder space. Not a parallel neck. .
Supposedly the 6.5x47 and the 6.5 Creedmoor solved those problems.
But there are lots of guys that like and shoot the 260. And do great with it. . As a hunter it's not as big an issue to me so I hope no one starts chewing me out.
It seems the 260 shooters like the Lapua brass .

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

It seems the 260 suffered from some of the same problems that the 300 Win Mag suffered. But there are lots of guys who have won lots of matches with the 300 Win mag.
Suppesedly those same issues were felt with in the 300 WSM And SHORTRUM.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Someone told me the other day that the Marine Corps was replacing the 308 with the CM? Any truth to that? You used the term "Parallel Neck". What is that and what does it look like?

CB

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

The sides of the case neck have less taper from shoulder to case mouth on the Creed than on the 260 Rem. .
Myself I think that if a reamer was cut to make a 260 Rem improved but instead of a more standard Ackley Improved where the joint of the neck and shoulder stay where they are and the outside edge of the shoulder is moved toward the case mouth. If the outside of the shoulder was kept where it is but the joint of the shoulder and neck was moved back to the base of the case and some of the neck taper was taken out it would yield an improved 260 with a 40° shoulder a longer neck and parallel sides of the neck.
The parallel case neck provides better neck tension as it releases the bullet. Supposedly that leads to better accuracy.
A reamer would also have to be cut for the sizer and seater / crimp die.