1000 Yard Gun - .260 vs 6.5 Creedmoor

[Crusty Buck]

Bear Bullets and the 260 Rem. We are covering oposite ends of the spectrum here

I couldn't get the Model 12 for any thing under $1200 or i would have definitely hooked up with it at $830. It is a much better bench gun. I plan on making the 308 Win work for me. I'll spend the winter shooting at 500 yards and see where we are in the spring. I've yet to get it broke in, 40 rds of shoot and clean at this point. If anyone has a pet 308 load for 500 yds out of a 24" barrel let me know.

Taking the 300 Winnie to a bear fight ; no doubt it will work in the right hands and under the right conditions, ie No Suprises of Close Encounters. At 250 yards, one can pick the shot and give the poison time to work. I have never hunted dangerous game. Here in Minnesota, Whitetails rarely fight back. By the way, my little bro shot a deer this afternoon at 30 yards with a 150 ish Amax in 300 win. mag. that I sent his way. Pummled the critter. The bullet never exited and ended up in literally a ball of bone and mush. That is the first time I have seen any bullet respond that way, but I have never seen a critter shot with a target bullet. they don't recomend it, but my bro often does things his way.

 

[backwoods83]

If your just punching paper, the 168grn berger hybrid over 47grns of varget, in winchester brass with CCI BR2 or Fed210M primers, .030" off the lands should put you in the sub 3/8moa area at 2820-2845ish fps if it acts like mine. Mine is just a 10fp with some tinkering. Mine also likes the same recipe for hunting, just swap out the berger for the 168 Nosler BT. It also has shot sub 1/4moa with 46grns varget and the 178 bthp match hornady touching the lands. These are high end loads and only work in winchester or norma brass, start about 3 grns lower, and if you use Fed, Lake City, or Lapua start 4 grns lower and your max will also be about a grain lower. I have shot a 5 shot 2 5/8" group at 560yrds laying down with the last load I listed. I also hunt with amaxs in 300wby and 300wsm, 208 grainers, they do great, the 155 your bro used was to light and fast and basically just exploded, any 300 magnum should be used for 180 grainers and heavier IMO.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I do my best to get as close as possible to bears. My preferred hand load in the 338 RUM. Is the 275 gr Kodiak Bonded Core at 2800
The LRX wasn't out yet when I had the RUM.
My personal rule is to hit bears with no less than 4k ft lbs.
Smaller interior grizzlies may not need that much. And trophy hunters just want the trophy. I'm into bow range with a rifle that would work well on elephant. But with light bullets. Until I get down to the 338 . Then I like heavy bullets.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Bears: I don't know when I'll earn enough money to hunt Bears in Alaska, good dreaming I guess.

308 Win Long Range Loads: A lot of guys I shoot with like the Varget powder for consistancy in temp changes. I bought stock in RL 15 a couple of years ago and need to use the stuff up. I'm down to my last # so may pick up a # of Varget. I was told by Reliant that the US Army uses RL 15 in their 308's. They probably had their choice of Varget as well. Wonder why they went with RL 15? Better Contract? Why not stay with an American Company if the product is as good or better.



CB

 

[backwoods83]

The military use RE15 in surplus "**** away" rounds for full autos. The M118 sniper round uses Imr4895. RE15 is consist es wise, accurate, and fast, but don't develope a stout load when its 50* out and shoot it when its 95*, you may end up in the hospital! Varget and Imr4064 are by far the best to choices for the 308, however the new CFE223 is showing some pretty good results as is BLC2.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Backwoods,

where did you get this information from? I spent a considerable amount of time in the Army, combat arms in one mos or the other. I know the budget often plays a huge part in what they finally buy. I have fired the 308 win out of a coax machine gun and was totally awed by the various trajectory patterns coming out. Granted, it was a rapid fire machine fastened into place with locking pins, not bolts. It is also a supressive fire weapon, so sending them everywhere made sense. Anyhow, it would be good to be able to get info like you just shared. If you have a reliable source that you are able to share, let me hear it. Incidently, with the info you shared, I'm currious as all get out to know what what powder their using in the M14's assigned to the sharp shooters in the platoon. I've tried BLC2 in my 223 and did not like the mess it made. Didn't shoot too bad, but seems to burn dirty.

CB

 

[backwoods83]

C Buck, BLC is to slow for the 223 unless your shooting 69grn or heavier pills using CCI #41s, 450s, or wolf small rifle mag primers. I have disected a few dozen M118 ball rounds, which is the long range load used in the M24 SWS, its supposed to be a 173grn, the good stuff is actually a 175grn Sierra match king, over 41.5grns of Imr4895, with CCI #34 primers, in sorted (LR headstamp) Lake City brass with a OAL of 2.810". Gives them a MV of 2550fps with the 24" 11.25" twist 5R milspec barrels, done this way to better match the mildot system. That same bullet can be driven as accurate and 150fps+ faster with 4064 or Varget, but it would change all of their charts for the mark 4 fixed 10x mildot that most are topped with.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Backwoods,

Uniformity is the name of the game in that organization. It makes sense, and is kinda cool all done and told that they calibrated it for the AR 4 scope. Having talked with a couple of local boys who served as Marine snipers. They told me that they pretty much can pick what they want as long as it's Rem, 308, 300 Win. or 338 Lapua. They have load masters who cook up their rounds for them.
I used Hornady 68 gr. BTHP's in my 223. I shot them out of a Tikka Lite. I once owned a 308 tikka Lite that was awesome, so I bought the 223 on that reputation and experience. I couldn't get the darn thing to shoot tighter than their guaranteed 1", sometimes worse. So, when the time was right it went down the road and the FCP-K magically showed up on my doorstep.
I couldn't push the 308 Tikka to the same velocity you have cooked up and keep it under an inch. I know I can load hotter and shoot better with the FCP

 

[backwoods83]

I load just about everything from 204 through 338edge and of all the rifles I have loaded for the Savages, Howa 1500/Vanguards, and kimbers like to be run hard, most others seem to do best with more modest loads, speaking of rifles with factory barrels that is. Just keep it safe.

 

[Crusty Buck]

Backwoods and Cold Trigger Finger,

Thanks gentlemen for the good information on Bears and Bullets. I think I have successfully steered this thread off track from the 260 and Creedmoor. Perhaps we can continue this conversation on a new thread dealing with the 308, or optics.

Appreciated,

Crusty Buck

 

[Pistol packer]

c. buck,

try talking to verle smith, idaho, founder of LBT and the most copied big bullet on the planet (although many copies are wrong-e.g. a lot of copies of LFN design doesnt have a large enough meplat and a few thousands makes a lot of difference). his number is 208-267-3588. as i said in our email, the 460 S&W and the 500 S&W (both can be loaded to the 45-70 specs of new rifles) are much better in the same type of bullets- as is a howitzer. larger, more power etc. is always better for bear ATTACKS but those pistols are too heavy for me to tote around ALL the time. i would want to put one down sometime.
call verle. he is hard to get ahold of sometimes just keep trying. a 300 WM is more than adequate for nearly all bear in alaska-for hunting.
also linebaugh is a great source of info on these slugs.

doc

 

[Crusty Buck]

Pistol Packer,

Thanks to you also for the info on the handguns. Part of my hunting in MN is done with a slug gun. Little Bro tried to talk me into a muzzle loader, but often I get shots at more than one deer zinging past me. No time to reload a front loader. I told my wife that she should expect me to do some horse trading this year for a heavy pistol, either revolver or a TC. OK, I'm off the thread again Thanks for the info. Stay Safe.

CB

 

[mcharger440]

i realize im new here but my little creedmoor has blown my mind i have hit the target (granted not consistantly) at 1780yds with a nice little round hole i have a 26.5" shilen cm 1:8 barrel on a large ring mauser action it keeps great groups and has very little temp sensativity i load 41.5gn of rl-17 with 142smk at 2.825 c.o.l. @ 2965fps-2980fps i have never shot a 260 so i cant say as for it but the creedmoor is fantastic side note i use 243 hornady brass i can go to the range at any given time and come home with 30-40 rounds

 

[backwoods83]

That sounds dangerous, 41.5grn especially in sized down 243 hornady brass, I'm no expert but that sounds like about 72k psi.