RockyMtnMT
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Exactly why I zero at 300. That way I don't have to dial anything until after 400+ yards.
Steve
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100 or 200 Yard Zero???
- Thread starter Jeffrthehunter
- Start date
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Steve
I gotta jump in here and say that I believe most average 40 shot per year shooters may think that they can deliver the goods on a long shot, but the reality is that long range shooting is a discipline, much like racing, or maybe even one of the martial arts. It can be called a discipline because it TAKES discipline. I shoot many more rounds than anyone I personally know. I have always wanted to shoot to a mile, just something I thought would be fun. Built myself a rifle which I thought would get it done, and started trying to learn the ins and outs of long range shooting. Wow. I didn't know ANYTHING about shooting, or ballistics. Talk about humbling. I would jump at a chance to shoot with someone who knows more than me. Just saying. Thanks for listening.I agree, but my point...which isn't always readily apperent, is that if they can't trust the dope to have a correct 300 yard zero, then they have no buisnes shooting at long range. As you correctly stated...this is a long range hunting sight. and we should be able to trust our dope at ANY distance.
On the other hand , I always have advocated actual SHOOTING to confirm dope at ANY distance before you attempt taking game, and EVERYONE here should have done actual testing at various ranges to test their dope.
I have quite a few friends who shoot one test target a year at 100, 200, or whatever, and, because they are shooting some high dollar store bought "long range"gun and scope that they are "long range hunters". And trust me, Around here, if someone thinks of them self as a LR shooter, I am the first one they tell!!And, every single one of them says that we should go out and do some shooting, which, as usuall, I'm all up to do. None of them ever call back.
I see this "what distance" topic come up from time to time, and I think it is a GOOD topic......with no correct answer, IMO.
Have a great day,
Tod
Gregg
The way I handled my rifles leading up to the Aoudad hunt:
Zero both at 300yds.
Too a 7' tall section of card board (hard to find a piece this long, still have it too).
I put the center of a 6" diamond one foot down from the top.
Put another 6" diamond at 48" down.
One last 6" diamond at 54".
That is where the two rifles were supposed to drop at 600 yards with a 300 yard zero.
Nice I confirmed they hit where expected, I bagged the rifles up real solid and dialed them down to POI. Checked dials...spot on, so I'm pretty sure the scopes are tracking properly and my dope was GTG for the hunt.
No trusting the Millet scope to track I set it back to 300 yards and made notes on a picture of the reticle of 600yds, 500yds and 400yds.
But the SWFA on the 300wm I did dial up two possible shots. One at 599 yards and one at 652 yards. Didn't take either one, 599 shot would be up the rump head on wing. 652 shot was wind; 10mph at 90 degrees with two ridges between me and the target ram. I only had about 10 feet of clearance over one and the other less that 5 feet. So I passed both shots!
Zero both at 300yds.
Too a 7' tall section of card board (hard to find a piece this long, still have it too).
I put the center of a 6" diamond one foot down from the top.
Put another 6" diamond at 48" down.
One last 6" diamond at 54".
That is where the two rifles were supposed to drop at 600 yards with a 300 yard zero.
Nice I confirmed they hit where expected, I bagged the rifles up real solid and dialed them down to POI. Checked dials...spot on, so I'm pretty sure the scopes are tracking properly and my dope was GTG for the hunt.
No trusting the Millet scope to track I set it back to 300 yards and made notes on a picture of the reticle of 600yds, 500yds and 400yds.
But the SWFA on the 300wm I did dial up two possible shots. One at 599 yards and one at 652 yards. Didn't take either one, 599 shot would be up the rump head on wing. 652 shot was wind; 10mph at 90 degrees with two ridges between me and the target ram. I only had about 10 feet of clearance over one and the other less that 5 feet. So I passed both shots!
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Bryan Litz recommends 100 yard zero to reduce environmental errors. Took me a while to come around but now I agree.
Although I zero at 100 so my POI is about 1.3" high, so POI at 200 is dead on. It lets me shoot without dialing anywhere within about 250 yards, and when I'm hunting in the timber my POI is also zeroed somewhere between 30-50 yards.
Of course I plug the vertical offset into my shooting app so everything is accounted for when I dial.
Although I zero at 100 so my POI is about 1.3" high, so POI at 200 is dead on. It lets me shoot without dialing anywhere within about 250 yards, and when I'm hunting in the timber my POI is also zeroed somewhere between 30-50 yards.
Of course I plug the vertical offset into my shooting app so everything is accounted for when I dial.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Every scope I own that has target turrets, is set at 100 yards.
The only time I set for more than 100 yards, is when it's a scope with a BDC that I don't have target turrets on (like my Kahles on my lightweight deer rig), so I can't easily dial for yardage. This is where the Strelok app comes in handy. I can punch in my rifle & load info, scope make & model, and select my reticle, and it shows me on my reticle (on my phone screen) where I'll hit if I set me zero at a certain distance. For example, say I want to set my max distance for 500 yards... I just keep adjusting the app till it tells me what distance I need to set my zero, for my lowest crosshair on the BDC to land at 500 yards, so then I do some math on the dope chart and set my zero at however many inches above zero at 100 yards. Sounds like a lot of work, but it takes longer to type and explain than it actually does to figure it out.
The only time I set for more than 100 yards, is when it's a scope with a BDC that I don't have target turrets on (like my Kahles on my lightweight deer rig), so I can't easily dial for yardage. This is where the Strelok app comes in handy. I can punch in my rifle & load info, scope make & model, and select my reticle, and it shows me on my reticle (on my phone screen) where I'll hit if I set me zero at a certain distance. For example, say I want to set my max distance for 500 yards... I just keep adjusting the app till it tells me what distance I need to set my zero, for my lowest crosshair on the BDC to land at 500 yards, so then I do some math on the dope chart and set my zero at however many inches above zero at 100 yards. Sounds like a lot of work, but it takes longer to type and explain than it actually does to figure it out.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Sounds to me like you ighted in high at 100 yards for a theoretical 200y zero and then pluged those numbers into a balistics program that should have you pretty close out to 500y.
Reminds me of how I did this stuff with my 1st hunting rifle in 30-06 with a 4x Weaver scope. I wohld sight in (not zero) 4" high at 100y. That way I would be 8" low at 300y. This way I would be able to hit any big game animal out to 300y without any adjustment. We did not have range finders then and I never shot at anything other than an animal farther than 100y.
I may be all wrong here, but to me zeroing a rifle at any particular range means that you shoot it at that range and set the poi so that it is in the center of the poa. Shooting a rifle at the 100y range and sighting it in a few inches high is not zeroing. I have no problem with this method, I did it for years. I started zeroing my rifles when I started shooting long range and needed the data to be exact in order to make down range impacts on the 1st try. BDC reticles and theortical hold overs can be done regardless of precision out to about 500y. BC is inconsequential as well as environmental factors and close is good enough. I have a buddy that is a very good long range shooter that zeros his rifles at 100 meters and does it all in mills. This is where his mind is trained to work well with the solution for distance. I start throwing 300y zero and moa at him and he glazes over just like I do at the thought of trying to comprehend his method. What we do have in common is a precise zero that is performed at that range. Not a sighted in rifle that is a bit high at the range that it was sighted in at.
I think in this thread we have two different subjects going. One group is discussing sighting in their rifles and the other is discussing an actual zero for a rifle that has to be correct in order to have any hope of an accurate shooting solution beyond 600y. This second group has also shot these solutions in the field before trying to see if their will work on an animal.
Sorry for the rant. But these two different process for setting up a rifle are for two entirely different different objectives.
Steve
tankgijohn72
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 466
Depends on hunting situation for me. I try to minimize any holdovers based on the cartridge and elevation. Meaning I go for a max point blank range +/- 4". So if I have a relatively quick shot at shorter ranges I can hold center on a deer. If you were hunting a smaller animal, say a squirrel, you cant tolerate such a large MPBR and still effectively put it in vital organs. I do feel that 100 yd zero is a waste assuming you are shooting a high powered rifle. 200 yds to me is minimum sight in distance. Almost every rifle out there will not put a bullet more than 3" above the line of sight at 100 yards if zeroed at 200 yards. Both cartridge and elevation play a very large role in how flat your rifle will shoot. Listed some examples below. If you run into a situation that you wanted to check your zero for some reason, it is very easy to print a chart, tape it to your stock and know that your bullet is say 2.2" high at 100 for a 200 yd zero.
Situational dependent setup for me. But here are some past examples for me hunting.
Ex 1: 35 whelen at 10,000ft in Colorado I zeroed at 200 yds. 200 gr ttsx at 2775fps. Could hold center mass without any holdover to maybe 240-250 yds. Held just above shoulder for 325 yd shot.
Ex 2: 6500ft Idaho 270 win 129 LRX at 3004fps. Zeroed at 300 yds. Downhill shot at 350 yds corrected for angle was more like 320yd shot. Held center mass.
Ex 3: 7000ft Idaho 300 wm 208 AMAX 2800fps. Zeroed at 300 yds. Deer at 525yd. Obviously had to hold over, but something like 5.25 moa. Forget exact numbers on that one.
Ex 4: 1000ft Indiana .243 win 95 gr fed fusion 2950 fps. zeroed at 200 yds. Deer at 40 yds, 130yds same hold, same result.
Situational dependent setup for me. But here are some past examples for me hunting.
Ex 1: 35 whelen at 10,000ft in Colorado I zeroed at 200 yds. 200 gr ttsx at 2775fps. Could hold center mass without any holdover to maybe 240-250 yds. Held just above shoulder for 325 yd shot.
Ex 2: 6500ft Idaho 270 win 129 LRX at 3004fps. Zeroed at 300 yds. Downhill shot at 350 yds corrected for angle was more like 320yd shot. Held center mass.
Ex 3: 7000ft Idaho 300 wm 208 AMAX 2800fps. Zeroed at 300 yds. Deer at 525yd. Obviously had to hold over, but something like 5.25 moa. Forget exact numbers on that one.
Ex 4: 1000ft Indiana .243 win 95 gr fed fusion 2950 fps. zeroed at 200 yds. Deer at 40 yds, 130yds same hold, same result.
Steve, good discussion, and a good distinction that could be clarified.
I think we are all trying to set up our rifles to be accurate for how we hunt.
However, at least for myself, I am setting up rifle to have the best of those two scenarios that are discussing.
I think like most of us here, I started hunting long before our current technology boom of easily accessible ballistics apps and fancy scopes with turrets and sub 1/4 moa rifles. I always sighted in at 200 yards. My mind works well with that point of impact. The two main reasons being, 1: it lets me shoot an at an animal without dialing out to about 250 yards and, 2: the trajectory also crosses up close at around 40 yards. For me it is a simple and perfect trajectory for how I hunt and think.
Now jump to sighting in at 100 yards. "Zero distance" and "point of impact" are two distinct things. 100 yards is an ideal distance to sight in but you still need to track your point of impact. With sub 1/4 moa rifles and 100 yard zeros, I can see when my point of impact is, let's say for example, .15inches left and .1inches high. I enter that offset into my AB app and then verify the setup to distances much much further than I will ever hunt, well beyond 1000 yards. I don't think I've ever had my hunting rifle zerod at 100 yards with a perfect point of impact. Those small offsets in point of impact show up at long range.
But I don't like the trajectory of a rifle that has the point of impact close to the bullseye at 100 yards (regardless of the distance in which I zeroed). So here is where I get The best of both worlds. I zero at 100 yards to reduce environmental errors, but create my point of impact such that my trajectory mimics a point of impact close to the bullseye at both ~40 yards and 200 yards, which is what most people think of as a 200 yard zero.
I think we are all trying to set up our rifles to be accurate for how we hunt.
However, at least for myself, I am setting up rifle to have the best of those two scenarios that are discussing.
I think like most of us here, I started hunting long before our current technology boom of easily accessible ballistics apps and fancy scopes with turrets and sub 1/4 moa rifles. I always sighted in at 200 yards. My mind works well with that point of impact. The two main reasons being, 1: it lets me shoot an at an animal without dialing out to about 250 yards and, 2: the trajectory also crosses up close at around 40 yards. For me it is a simple and perfect trajectory for how I hunt and think.
Now jump to sighting in at 100 yards. "Zero distance" and "point of impact" are two distinct things. 100 yards is an ideal distance to sight in but you still need to track your point of impact. With sub 1/4 moa rifles and 100 yard zeros, I can see when my point of impact is, let's say for example, .15inches left and .1inches high. I enter that offset into my AB app and then verify the setup to distances much much further than I will ever hunt, well beyond 1000 yards. I don't think I've ever had my hunting rifle zerod at 100 yards with a perfect point of impact. Those small offsets in point of impact show up at long range.
But I don't like the trajectory of a rifle that has the point of impact close to the bullseye at 100 yards (regardless of the distance in which I zeroed). So here is where I get The best of both worlds. I zero at 100 yards to reduce environmental errors, but create my point of impact such that my trajectory mimics a point of impact close to the bullseye at both ~40 yards and 200 yards, which is what most people think of as a 200 yard zero.
jbo829
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2017
- Messages
- 376
Not trying to hijack the thread but I have a question my POI is way off on cold bore
My previous set up was my Remington 700 Woodstock Chamber in 280 i had a 4-12x50 Nikon buckmaster scope with high rings on dovetail bases and I have shot game out to 350 yards
since then I added a 20moa one piece base and 30mm X high rings and a nightforce shv 5-20x56 scope shot the gun to a 1" high zero but now every time I take the gun out to shoot my first round is 11 low but if I shoot 2 more shoots the gun is 1" high I'll let the gun cool 15mins and then shoot again and same issue any help would be appreciated I put a aluminum bedded stock on the gun now but have not shot it yet
My previous set up was my Remington 700 Woodstock Chamber in 280 i had a 4-12x50 Nikon buckmaster scope with high rings on dovetail bases and I have shot game out to 350 yards
since then I added a 20moa one piece base and 30mm X high rings and a nightforce shv 5-20x56 scope shot the gun to a 1" high zero but now every time I take the gun out to shoot my first round is 11 low but if I shoot 2 more shoots the gun is 1" high I'll let the gun cool 15mins and then shoot again and same issue any help would be appreciated I put a aluminum bedded stock on the gun now but have not shot it yet
RockyMtnMT
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Like what's been brought up, there is zero range and zero height, I zero at 100 so enviro's don't mess with what I'm getting, by 300 I can see substantial effects especially from wind. I usually will zero a couple inches high at a 100 to give me a nice PBR but it's all done at 100 so it's stable across all of my hunting year.
memtb
Well-Known Member
Jeff, When I gave our three (3) hundred yard zero recommendations and reasons....we are primarily hunters not shooters. We often only have a few seconds to make a shot. Our zero helps with accurate "quick" shoots within our likely hunting/ shooting distances. Longer than 400 (at least for us) requires more time to "dope" wind, ascertain exact range, and adjust accordingly. For the longer shoots, a "quick" shot is not (IMO) respectful to the animal, and generally at longer ranges you will likely have the time to properly evaluate your shot. memtb
