“Your groups are too small” vs barrel life

[tribb]

For hunting try one shot a day at the same target for 10 days in a row. That is your animal killing MOA.
I have an old factory Rem 700 BDL in 7 mag I bought used in the 80's. It had been hand loaded pretty hot before I got it. You can keep her at 1 MOA and under if you let her cool good between shots. If you start in and shoot two three shots groups quickly she opens up bad.
Almost guaranteed that the 2nd shot after cold bore will be about 1 MOA higher than the first. So this old factory barreled gal is not a great barrel, but she is one that is a dang good hunting barrel just because that first shot is all that counts, and knowing where the 2nd shot will be helps also.

Someone once said "Beware the man that has only one gun as he likely shoots it very well "

 

[Turpentine21]

Someone once said "Beware the man that has only one gun as he likely shoots it very well "

That is the way I always practiced during deer season with my recurve or longbow. One arrow per day. Good or bad. Put everything into making that one good shot. Because that's likely all you will get on a hunt. It works

 

[Turpentine21]

For hunting try one shot a day at the same target for 10 days in a row. That is your animal killing MOA.
I have an old factory Rem 700 BDL in 7 mag I bought used in the 80's. It had been hand loaded pretty hot before I got it. You can keep her at 1 MOA and under if you let her cool good between shots. If you start in and shoot two three shots groups quickly she opens up bad.
Almost guaranteed that the 2nd shot after cold bore will be about 1 MOA higher than the first. So this old factory barreled gal is not a great barrel, but she is one that is a dang good hunting barrel just because that first shot is all that counts, and knowing where the 2nd shot will be helps also.

Fortunately I get to shoot a lot of different customers rifles when working on or zeroing them. Many are exactly as you describe. The most accurate hunting rifle I have ever shot is a bone stock factory Browning ABolt 270. If you shoot it once a day it literally will shoot in the same hole if you overlay targets from consecutive days. Shoot it twice and the second shot will be touching the first or better. After that she starts walking and you gotta let her cool. But that first one is the one that counts.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Fortunately I get to shoot a lot of different customers rifles when working on or zeroing them. Many are exactly as you describe. The most accurate hunting rifle I have ever shot is a bone stock factory Browning ABolt 270. If you shoot it once a day it literally will shoot in the same hole if you overlay targets from consecutive days. Shoot it twice and the second shot will be touching the first or better. After that she starts walking and you gotta let her cool. But that first one is the one that counts.

Your experience that rifle is conclusive data and illustrates the point I have been making in this thread. The fact that poi walks after the barrel warms doesn't make this rifle "garbage". It makes it "light"; which is great for a hunting rifle that will put the first shot into the same hole as yesterday time after time after time. For folks who have to carry their rifle any distance to hunt, this has been the holy grail.
Of course if I were shooting close to my vehicle across a wide valley I might opt for a 16 lb set up. As hunters we simply don't need to know where that 50th hot barrel shot lands because it is irrelevant to what we are doing.
Now for match shooters it is essential data.

 

[Turpentine21]

Your experience that rifle is conclusive data and illustrates the point I have been making in this thread. The fact that poi walks after the barrel warms doesn't make this rifle "garbage". It makes it "light"; which is great for a hunting rifle that will put the first shot into the same hole as yesterday time after time after time. For folks who have to carry their rifle any distance to hunt, this has been the holy grail.
Of course if I were shooting close to my vehicle across a wide valley I might opt for a 16 lb set up. As hunters we simply don't need to know where that 50th hot barrel shot lands because it is irrelevant to what we are doing.
Now for match shooters it is essential data.

Exactly. I have heavy and light rifles but I don't walk far to hunt for the most part. I can't walk far after my accident anyway. If by some crazy coincidence I do have to walk a long way I opt for the lighter set ups and my walking stick or cane.
I have seen several older Remington 700 BDL 30-06s that were almost as good as the browning I described with regular old Remington 150 grain corelokts for up to 3 shots before they start walking a little. Bone stock other than some trigger work. My routine for customers guns is to zero one day. Then come back on consecutive days and make sure it's zeroed to its cold bore shot with repeatability. It must work because more and more folks bring their rigs in for me to mount scopes and/or just zero.

 

[QuietTexan]

I just honestly believe that 90-95% of the accuracy comes from the build components and quality, rifle base weight, reloading components, reloading practices and shooters ability. Prior to a round even being fired. Not from micro tuning.

Yup, 100%.

When you start with a reamer designed to fit a case exactly, throated for a particular bullet, with dozens/hundreds of other guys running the same chamber, same brass, same powder, same bullet, there's emerges a pretty consistent picture. The JGS 1045 6PPC reamer is almost stupidly easy to get to shoot small. Group agging becomes mostly on the shooter at that point, because every one is starting from a similar baseline and running similar weight rifles.

 

[RegionRat]

Good comments @Turpentine21

It is very important to set the context on these threads. A light hunting rig with significant recoil is not the same subject as a 18 lbs PRS rig or an F-open match rig. Not from the load development view point, or from the shooting technique view point.

Strong field shooting fundamentals are required to get good performance from higher powered cartridges when they are used in light sporting guns.

I belong to several clubs and on many occasions when a High Master has tried to learn hunting in their middle or late age, they were shocked at how poorly they shot these hunting rigs from body supported positions.

It had nothing to do with the accuracy of the guns, it was all about shooting technique required when there is big recoil.

It takes patients to test light barrel sections that heat up fast, and that load development is far more difficult than the match gun context. It also takes lots of practice to learn to control that recoil and make humane shots under pressure. YMMV

 

[Huntnful]

Yup, 100%.

When you start with a reamer designed to fit a case exactly, throated for a particular bullet, with dozens/hundreds of other guys running the same chamber, same brass, same powder, same bullet, there's emerges a pretty consistent picture. The JGS 1045 6PPC reamer is almost stupidly easy to get to shoot small. Group agging becomes mostly on the shooter at that point, because every one is starting from a similar baseline and running similar weight rifles.

Perfect example. Just watched a video "Speedy" did with his 6 PPC testing a new lot of virgin brass from a new manufacturer with an old load. First 5 shots was a .190" group.

I do think you can tune harmonics at long ranges to help tighten up vertical spreads. But I still haven't seen a significant change in my testing. But I see it in other's testing, that are much better shooters than I, with more stable platforms.