“Your groups are too small” vs barrel life

[Frank in the Laurels]

..in a hunting rifle there's no reason to go nuts over trying to shoot the smallest groups possible because the size if your target area is at least the size of a volleyball and maybe as big as a beachball, so why put your barrel through all those shots for zero gain...lots of us claim to be "shoot it in the eye" but none of us pass up chest shots on big game despite what we claim. Real "group" benchrest shooting is obviously a completely different story and then you must put some shots down the bore despite the wear and tear but never in a hunting barrel. No one can convince me it makes a difference whether I hit the left or right side of a heart or top or bottom of the lungs...so save that barrel and wear and tear on your brain worrying about shooting 1/4 hunting rifle groups...that little puff of unforeseen wind will have affect and effect than a 1/2 or 3/4 inch group..

 

[QuietTexan]

Doing all this for several bullets and what are we talking 1000 rounds of barrel life? How much is left for match shooting. Does this mean I can develop on one barrel and apply results to the next 2-3 barrels? Maybe.

Absolutely. This is why I buy my own reamers, and sometimes have multiple barrels cut at the same time. Multiple 6PPC barrels shoot not only the same loads.... but the same brass. These kind of cases can last 30+ reloading cycles, there's no need to chuck them if the groups are still small. 100 cases can last two to three barrels. Some guys run only 20 cases for one barrel life.

There's a reason when you look at Cal Zandt compiling 6 Dasher loads in PRS that so many guys end up in the same ~1-2gn charge weight range, because it generally just works. Same concept behind FGMM 308 Win loads, it's a rare rifle that doesn't shoot them well.

My 30-338 LIMP I fireform brass in one rifle to use in another (big heavy bench gun vs hunting weight gun), but the barrels were cut back to back on the reamer.

If you don't have it already, Bryan Litz's Modern Advancements Vol 3 has a chapter on theory of rifle precision based on weight/recoil, it's a good read to establish baseline precision for a rifle so you have a good idea when to stop.

 

[BSPPC]

If I shoot 1 shot I have a 0 MOA group.

If I shoot 2 shots and they are .5 MOA apart I have a .5 MOA group.

If I stop there I think I am good.

If I shoot 10 more 2 shot groups and they vary from .5 MOA to 2 MOA I will see that the .5 MOA group was an aberration.

One 2 shot group might tell me something. A larger group size will tell me more. Multiple larger group sizes will tell me even more.

2 shots is not enough.

You are not looking at two shot groups as a way to find your tune, stop pushing your narrative, you do t know what you refuse to hear

 

[Jon Bischof]

You are not looking at two shot groups as a way to find your tune, stop pushing your narrative, you do t know what you refuse to hear

5 2-shot groups would tell you quite a lot if you start each group with a cold barrel.

 

[Huntnful]

Absolutely. This is why I buy my own reamers, and sometimes have multiple barrels cut at the same time. Multiple 6PPC barrels shoot not only the same loads.... but the same brass. These kind of cases can last 30+ reloading cycles, there's no need to chuck them if the groups are still small. 100 cases can last two to three barrels. Some guys run only 20 cases for one barrel life.

There's a reason when you look at Cal Zandt compiling 6 Dasher loads in PRS that so many guys end up in the same ~1-2gn charge weight range, because it generally just works. Same concept behind FGMM 308 Win loads, it's a rare rifle that doesn't shoot them well.

My 30-338 LIMP I fireform brass in one rifle to use in another (big heavy bench gun vs hunting weight gun), but the barrels were cut back to back on the reamer.

If you don't have it already, Bryan Litz's Modern Advancements Vol 3 has a chapter on theory of rifle precision based on weight/recoil, it's a good read to establish baseline precision for a rifle so you have a good idea when to stop.

This is what peaks my interest. I've heard several benchrest, F class, and also PRS guy (although they aren't as precise) say they've shot the SAME EXACT load in several barrels. And their groups are tiny tiny. If so much tuning is necessary to achieve a borderline optimum load, how is this even possible??

I just honestly believe that 90-95% of the accuracy comes from the build components and quality, rifle base weight, reloading components, reloading practices and shooters ability. Prior to a round even being fired. Not from micro tuning.

I've shot countless 5 shot sub .5" groups just testing new bullets and powders in moderate weight hunting rifles. First charge, first seating depth. I've seen it dozens and dozens of times from several cartridges and bullets and powders.

You can't tune a turd is going to be my new saying lol.

Not that you can shrink groups slightly from a baseline bullet/powder decision, the gains to be made are just miniscule from what I've seen from a properly built and weighted rifle.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

And not running on the red line…doesn't hurt a thing concerning consistency.
Not all that necessary to snort a 7/300NM setup eh?

 

[bfarms]

And not running on the red line…doesn't hurt a thing concerning consistency.
Not all that necessary to snort a 7/300NM setup eh?

I thought a had a 1/4 min 7/300. Now I gotta go burn the barrel out again to find out for sure I guess

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I thought a had a 1/4 min 7/300. Now I gotta go burn the barrel out again to find out for sure I guess

..won't take long to find out with that combo..it's only money..

 

[bfarms]

..won't take long to find out with that combo..it's only money..

Take a real long time not believing the hornady bs. Might get shot 5 times a year. Should be fine

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Take a real long time not believing the hornady bs. Might get shot 5 times a year. Should be fine

All I can say is the animals are in serious trouble.

 

[Huntnful]

And not running on the red line…doesn't hurt a thing concerning consistency.
Not all that necessary to snort a 7/300NM setup eh?

Hahaha she's built for speed, not comfort

But that ain't a bad 12 shot group…

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Take a real long time not believing the hornady bs. Might get shot 5 times a year. Should be fine

A lifetime at that rate....

 

[bfarms]

A lifetime at that rate....

I really don't know how long mine will last this go round. Didn't really build it to have a long barrel life. I just wanted speed and accuracy.
But to me tires and barrels have a lot in common in the hot rod world. Both are gonna need replaced sooner than later lol

 

[Turpentine21]

You should take up IBS. You'll hang with the 1000yd heavy gun world record holders. The current agg record is just under .5 MOA.


While your performance will affect your results, it's probably just not a .5 MOA gun and much of what you're seeing is just the expected variation from small sample sizes.

That gun actually will do three shots into .3 from cold. 5 shots will fall right under .5. These are repeated results over days of shooting. I don't shoot barrels hot as it's just not my thing. I built it heavy at 14 pounds scoped. But get good a good light wind day it does .5moa 3 or 5 shot slow fire groups regularly at 1000. Larger groups with it are almost always clearly my fault but the rifle will shoot. Will it do 10 or 20 into .5moa. I don't know and don't really care as that's not what it's for. If I wanted that I'd have a 6 PPC. The final piece of the consistent accuracy puzzle for me with this rifle was brass prep and Lapua brass.