A little help….caliber selection

FireFlyFishing said:

The more I've drilled down this hole over the last couple of years, the more I've discovered the caliber/cartridge choice matters much less than skills and proficiency with your rifle(s).

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The "NUT" behind the trigger remains the biggest factor, as shown in my sig line.

I always choose my calibre first, then the cartridge for the intended game.
I chose my 257AI first because brass was plentiful at the time, bullets were too.
Later, brass was difficult to get.
Bought a 25-06 next, never have I had brass issues. Then a 25-300WSM…
Then, a 257 Weatherby fell into my lap.
I think I have 25 cal covered.

My point here is, you CAN do it all with ONE calibre, but it's nicer to have different levels of power to choose from.

I have similar step ups in 6.5, 270, 7, 30, 33 & 37. None are really NEEDED but that's what I want.

Cheers.

I should add that I have a 300 WSM and 28 Sherman Mag….so, I'm looking for a low recoil option!

I'll probably buckle and get a 6.5 Creedmoor, but I'd like something a little faster…..maybe the PRC or maybe a 6mm.

Mostly the purpose of this post was to not discuss calibers. I wanted to discuss the logic proposed in the op. Then I was looking for advice on how do I determine a bullet will exit?

Bullet construction and sectional density are the factors that most influence a bullets penetrating ability. The less they expand, the easier it is for a bullet to penetrate further.

nksmfamjp said:

Mostly the purpose of this post was to not discuss calibers. I wanted to discuss the logic proposed in the op. Then I was looking for advice on how do I determine a bullet will exit?

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The biggest problem is that the animal always gets a vote and they very rarely do what we want them to. I have had complete pass-throughs on large animals with "match" bullets and had a few 120lb+/- whitetail doe catch "premium hunting bullets" (partitions/accubonds/etc) even a couple that were good broadside shots. It really depends. Obviously the ones that retain their weight and only expand to a certain point will have a much greater chance at exiting than the rest, but there is always a trade-off. For those it means that the permanent wound channel will be smaller, so a less than adequate shot will result in a rodeo or a lost animal.

All that being said, the mono-metal bullets designed to shed their petals (Hammer / Controlled Chaos / etc) are the "compromise" as the petals will shed and cause secondary wound channels while the base will continue on and most likely exit. Full disclaimer: I have not used either of these bullets before, but have been in a couple of camps where they were used to good effect. I have gone full circle myself. From standard cup and core (Federal SPs, Rem Core-loct) to Partitions/Accubonds, to mono-metal (Barnes and Cavity Back) and now to standard cup and core but of the "match" variety for better BCs and consistency in construction. I am not worried about meat loss as I now get the opportunity to hunt multiple animals in multiple states and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty large chunk of private land with a couple of good friends on which we need to take at least 12 does a year from, so I am not lacking in the meat department.

For me 300 wsm has become my favorite do everything caliber and it's easy to reload for.

Aussie Hunter Steve said:

Bullet construction and sectional density are the factors that most influence a bullets penetrating ability. The less they expand, the easier it is for a bullet to penetrate further.

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And…….the greater retained weight after expansion will aid in deeper penetration! memtb

It's funny, I read this and the first cartridge that came to mind is the old tried and true 30-06.
I have a lot of rifles in calibers from .243 through 300 Weatherby magnum but really the old 06 will cover all the bases.

How's this for stopping power?

FireFlyFishing said:

How's this for stopping power?

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Must be a creedmoor!

nksmfamjp said:

So, I'm trying to figure out cartridge, bullet, barrel lengths and twist rates in some logical fashion. Kind of makes you dizzy!

First I tend to focus on the animal. I figure to have the best chance there, I need best possible accuracy, expansion, and an exit.

Thinking about accuracy, I'm mostly focused on minimizing recoil which tends to push the cartridge to a minimum bullet weight and case capacity. That works. I'll admit, I shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor better than a 300 WM.

Then expansion. There are definitely cases where expansion is not required. Heart shots in just the right spot, brain, spinal shots. That said, especially at long range, I want an expanded bullet to the vitals. So, I want a bullet running over 1800 fps at max range. My legit max range now is 400. I am working to be good at 600. This has come down quite a bit in the last couple years because I'm more conservative about what shots I will take. As you can imagine, bc, personal effective range, barrel length, case capacity all play a role.

Then, I believe based on hunting experience that I need an exit. I struggle to know by the numbers if a bullet will exit. My thoughts are…., a bullet enters with kinetic energy. This energy does work on the bullet and on the animal. If it lacks enough energy, that will allow the bullet to stop. So, what is a minimum or a target? I go back to a near 0 work example. A 44 mag cast solid, imo will kill a mule deer buck at 120 yards with minimal left over. It will exit. That is about 600 ftlbs. So, I set that as my energy minimum to exit deer. I use 1000 for elk, but I really don't know about that.

So, does this make logical sense? Am I missing something big? Yes, I'm definitely overthinking it!

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Given that you have a .300 WSM, that you admit you don't shoot it as well as you do smaller calibers, it seems like you're looking for a cartridge that will be ideal for deer or similar-sized game, and you want to be able to take shots on deer out to 600 yards confidently, then you have some choices within your constraints.

First, expansion. You need energy to get a bullet to expand, and that correlates with velocity. Most hunting bullets reliably expand above 1800 ft/sec, so that would need to be your minimum velocity at 600 yards. You're looking at long, heavy-for-caliber bullets in the .264 to .284 diameter range. I think your best bet is between the 6.5 PRC and the 6.8 Western. Why not 7mms? Too close to what you have in the Sherman and WSM.

What about penetration? As others have pointed out, the more expansion, the less penetration. Yet, the two cartridges above should almost certainly penetrate a deer or elk completely on a broadside chest shot that doesn't hit the shoulders or leg bones. From what I've read the Accubond tends to hold together better than the ELD-X... I'll defer to comments from folks who have shot a deer with these bullets.

The 6.5 PRC/143gr ELD-X Hornady factory load and the 6.8 Western/165 gr Accubond LR Winchester factory load will be within 3 ft/sec at 500 yards, will be above 2,000 ft/sec at 600 yards... they have an almost identical trajectory. The 6.5 PRC will have slightly less recoil, the 6.8 Western will hit harder at long range and thus do more damage. I don't think there's enough difference to make a difference on deer, but I think it would make a difference on elk. The 6.5 PRC is a more specialized long range deer and similar cartridge, the 6.8 Western is marginally better for larger herbivores (elk, moose, African large plains game). Both cartridges are 'modern' designs with diameter-to-height ratios that have been found to increase intrinsic accuracy, both will fit and feed in short (.308-length) actions. In summary, this paragraph explains why Hornady so hates the 6.8... it is a better 6.5 PRC!

Since you already have the .300 WSM, the 6.5 PRC seems to be the right choice. I own .243s, .308s, .30-06s, a .338 Win Mag, a .375 H&H, and a .470 Capstick... I would (and have) picked the 6.8 Western.

I've ordered a magnum bolt face for my new-to-me ARC Mausingfield, and plan to get a 26" CF 6.8 Western barrel for it. I don't plan to run a muzzle brake on it, but I will get it threaded for a suppressor... maybe the new Silencerco Scythe-T. I think that will make the ideal long range hunting rifle... once I choose a stock.

FireFlyFishing said:

How's this for stopping power?

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I think the trailer was already stopped!

What about the old boring 308win.

The way I look at recoil is, you can usually build your rifle heavy enough, and put on a loud enough brake, that recoil isn't a problem. So in my mind, the question becomes "how heavy is too heavy, and how much muzzle blast is too much?"

Also, in my mind, picking a caliber and chambering boils down to how difficult it might be to keep eyes on a shot animal that runs. In open country or big fields where you can see the animal even if it runs a ways, you don't need a lot of horsepower for deer-sized game, and probably don't really need a bullet exit. If you're hunting senderos or fire breaks in heavy timber or brush, you probably want pretty high impact velocities and a tough, expanding bullet that will give a reliable, emphatic exit.

Anyway, that's the decision logic I use.