Oil No, Wind Yes

[1mechanic]

How is it that in 1975 we supposedly had a gas shortage but somehow almost 50 years later with a lot more cars and drivers we still have gas. We do have refinery shortages and with the epa regulations no one what's to build another one, especially since they're making so much more money raping the public on the so called short supply.

I understand trying to be more ecologically conscious but the govmint needs to back off on the crazy strict regulations and the lying new green deal.

I bet if you follow the money the politicians that back the lies are taking our money.

Having multiple forms of energy is great.

Yes we need checks and balances but who does the epa answer too?

 

[Muddyboots]

Hmm in 1975 we were warned of the coming of the next ice age.....

 

[1mechanic]

Yes we are over due for an ice age. Guess what happens before an ice age, global warming.

The earth has been going through climate change for 4.5 billion years.

edit: who are we to think we have any control over the weather?

 

[victor3ranger]

Heck by then, we will be back to clubs, spears, atlatl and just maybe LONG RANGE bows.

I hate to say it but it sure looks like that the way it's heading.
I guess it's a good thing I still know how to make those things
What's old will be new again

 

[Mike6158]

There are no free rides in "fizzicks".

Wind turbines are heavily subsidizes. They are 20% - 40% efficient. Or, if you look at it another way, 60%-80% inefficient. The blade is about 30% efficient. When they are operated at stall (wind is blowing and they aren't turning because there is no demand) the efficiency of the blade drops drastically. I'll get back to why that's important in a bit.
I've seen claims that they take 7-8 years to pay off the install cost and then after that the electricity is "free". That automatically raises the zealot red flag. Nothing about producing energy is ever free, not even to the sun. If it spins, it has wear and it requires maintenance. Maintenance occurs when it breaks and about every 3-6 months. Personally, I'd rather work on a generator that's in a building on the ground than up on an ugly white stick.

When a photon hits a solar panel, it knocks atoms off of the silicon, that generates a small DC charge, and depending on the surface area, that creates a DC voltage. The panel depletes over time. It's loosely analogous to rusting only it makes power as it depletes. They are supposed to last 20-25 years but they are at peak efficiency when they are installed and decline from there. I don't hate solar. I've run my ham radios off of it, including a small computer. I don't like solar either It's also subsidized. It doesn't stand on it's own merits. It takes 10 years to recoup the investment. They take up too much space. Small coops are installing that trash on farmland around here.

What are the wind turbines doing to the wind field? The wind field IS climate. It drives the climate. The wind field is driven by uneven heating, the drag from the earth spinning, etc. The wind turbine extracts energy from the wind field and it does so very inefficiently. So it takes more wind energy than is being generated. Wind energy is what drives the climate. When the "big stupid looking fan" blades are parked they are stalled. Air no longer flows smoothly over the air foil. The efficiency drops to zero and they are still removing energy from the wind field. Think about how water looks when it flows around a rock. It makes all kinds of little eddy currents and waves. For that matter, think about how water flows period. Put an obstruction in the stream bed and what happens? The water behind the obstruction rises. The pressure behind the obstruction rises. Air is about 830 times less dense than water but makes no mistake, it has the properties of a fluid and all of those uglyass fans are having an impact.

If you want to see the wind field this is a pretty good site for wind, radar, hurricanes, and all kinds of weather Windy

 

[victor3ranger]

How is it that in 1975 we supposedly had a gas shortage but somehow almost 50 years later with a lot more cars and drivers we still have gas. We do have refinery shortages and with the epa regulations no one what's to build another one, especially since they're making so much more money raping the public on the so called short supply.

I understand trying to be more ecologically conscious but the govmint needs to back off on the crazy strict regulations and the lying new green deal.

I bet if you follow the money the politicians that back the lies are taking our money.

Having multiple forms of energy is great.

Yes we need checks and balances but who does the epa answer too?

To find your answer just follow the money.
But be aware that if you do that you will be sucked into a rabbit hole and you will definitely not like what you find

 

[1mechanic]

Oh I've seen some of it, the worst is why Brandon is so interested in helping Ukraine.

 

[victor3ranger]

There are no free rides in "fizzicks".

Wind turbines are heavily subsidizes. They are 20% - 40% efficient. Or, if you look at it another way, 60%-80% inefficient. The blade is about 30% efficient. When they are operated at stall (wind is blowing and they aren't turning because there is no demand) the efficiency of the blade drops drastically. I'll get back to why that's important in a bit.
I've seen claims that they take 7-8 years to pay off the install cost and then after that the electricity is "free". That automatically raises the zealot red flag. Nothing about producing energy is ever free, not even to the sun. If it spins, it has wear and it requires maintenance. Maintenance occurs when it breaks and about every 3-6 months. Personally, I'd rather work on a generator that's in a building on the ground than up on an ugly white stick.

When a photon hits a solar panel, it knocks atoms off of the silicon, that generates a small DC charge, and depending on the surface area, that creates a DC voltage. The panel depletes over time. It's loosely analogous to rusting only it makes power as it depletes. They are supposed to last 20-25 years but they are at peak efficiency when they are installed and decline from there. I don't hate solar. I've run my ham radios off of it, including a small computer. I don't like solar either It's also subsidized. It doesn't stand on it's own merits. It takes 10 years to recoup the investment. They take up too much space. Small coops are installing that trash on farmland around here.

What are the wind turbines doing to the wind field? The wind field IS climate. It drives the climate. The wind field is driven by uneven heating, the drag from the earth spinning, etc. The wind turbine extracts energy from the wind field and it does so very inefficiently. So it takes more wind energy than is being generated. Wind energy is what drives the climate. When the "big stupid looking fan" blades are parked they are stalled. Air no longer flows smoothly over the air foil. The efficiency drops to zero and they are still removing energy from the wind field. Think about how water looks when it flows around a rock. It makes all kinds of little eddy currents and waves. For that matter, think about how water flows period. Put an obstruction in the stream bed and what happens? The water behind the obstruction rises. The pressure behind the obstruction rises. Air is about 830 times less dense than water but makes no mistake, it has the properties of a fluid and all of those uglyass fans are having an impact.

If you want to see the wind field this is a pretty good site for wind, radar, hurricanes, and all kinds of weather Windy

We can see those windmill farms on Doppler radar all the time when it's storming.
I didn't really understand why until you just said that.

 

[Mike6158]

We can see those windmill farms on Doppler radar all the time when it's storming.
I didn't really understand why until you just said that.

I've been beating that horse for over a decade or more. It doesn't take with "green" people. Kind of like arguing with an EV driver. I don't care if someone wants to drive an EV. However, don't tell me that we can replace 18 wheelers or my pickup with one. I drive a lot (pickup) like hundreds of miles a day sometimes. Mostly just visiting kids / grandkids and getting to/from work (I REFUSE to live in Houston). The last thing I want to do is wait for my pickup, that can't haul anything because the batteries use up cargo capacity, to charge.

I worry about my grandkids lives in the future. There are too many people that can't tell the difference between **** and Shineola (<--- my dad's old saying) and we put them in charge. Well... some of us don't, we just live with the consequences.

 

[105Coues]

I agree that we need to look at all cost effective options. I have been in the power industry a long time and I can tell u this. The industry used to have to be innovative and provide the lowest cost energy for the consumer. Now it is mandated green energy is dispatched first if available no matter what the cost. This cost is what you and I pay. Our electric and gas bills increased just under 30% this year. If your state hasn't it is coming. In addition, all this green power is heavily subsidized and we as taxpayers pay that too. As far as the windmills go, extremely inefficient and maintenance intensive. If it were not for the subsidies using our taxpayer money, I don't think any would exist except maybe on the coast where it blows like heck all the time.

 

[sika64]

The money deposited stays there even if the developer goes BR. Thats the point.

Just like Social Security right

 

[Mike6158]

I don't think any would exist except maybe on the coast where it blows like heck all the time.

In TX, even when the wind blows along the coast the wind turbines are often stopped.

 

[Muddyboots]

Wind turbine blades have been piling up in landfills taking up extraordinary amount of space desperately needed for general trash. The blades are fiberglass composite material which is very difficult to recycle thus "easier" to landfill. These blades have a structural lifespan to prevent in use catastrophic failure which then can damage main support structure. This "story" is well known but "buried" by the propaganda media cause it doesn't fit the "green" narrative.

 

[MtPockets]

Wind turbine blades have been piling up in landfills taking up extraordinary amount of space desperately needed for general trash. The blades are fiberglass composite material which is very difficult to recycle thus "easier" to landfill. These blades have a structural lifespan to prevent in use catastrophic failure which then can damage main support structure. This "story" is well known but "buried" by the propaganda media cause it doesn't fit the "green" narrative.

Funny (sad) how they choose to ignore the facts if it doesn't fit their preferred narrative.
Kind of like the picture in the original post.