12GA Rounds for Grizz?

[Mike Matteson]

I have held my tongue as I searched for an old article I read at least 40 years ago. The writer had been part of a group of 4 men who ran a guide service on Kodiak island. In his article, he first covered his last guided hunt, finishing off a Kodiak, wounded by the client. The bear ran to thick cover, and he used his own scent to get the bear to move, albeit at him, and killed it with a head shot with his rifle. As I recall, the rifle was a 30 caliber magnum, shorter barrel, iron sights, for just that kind of work. The bear charged him, running through saplings like grass, and slid to a stop 7 yards from where he was standing. The other reason he was quitting? He was the sole survivor of his guide business, all the others had been killed by bears. Never found the original article, but I never forgot it either.

At a gunsmith earlier this year. The smith showed me a 375 H & H mag rifle he was building. A 700 action and in a shorten barrel open slights, for a guide in Alaska. Now I don't know much hunting Brown bears in Alaska, but have read a lot on it over a great many years. Back to rifle, I felt it could be swag quickly and pointed not aimed to fire if time wasn't there to aimed. That depends on your skill. At the same time you can't pup your pants, make be afterwards. I put those bears in the area as hunting man.

 

[Mmac52280]

At a gunsmith earlier this year. The smith showed me a 375 H & H mag rifle he was building. A 700 action and in a shorten barrel open slights, for a guide in Alaska. Now I don't know much hunting Brown bears in Alaska, but have read a lot on it over a great many years. Back to rifle, I felt it could be swag quickly and pointed not aimed to fire if time wasn't there to aimed. That depends on your skill. At the same time you can't pup your pants, make be afterwards. I put those bears in the area as hunting man.

I remember parts of the article. A client, a well known NFL player at that time, demanded leaving after seeing his first Kodiak bear. Author wouldn't name him. A farmer on the island got a new 1 ton bull for breeding, that a bear killed within 24 hours. Watching a 10 point mule deer walking by the edge of the woods when a bear rushed and killed it with a single blow. Author said the blow partially tore the animals head off. Frankly, I suggest carrying the largest cannon you can. And I do mean cannon....

 

[Pdvdh]

I don't disagree that big game cartridges aren't the best for any big game, however, the 39-year-old 1983 report used a 12ga 2 3/4 inch with 1 oz 438gr Foster type slug in their test against big game powerhouses like the 460 Wby Mag and 375 H&H Mag... I think the outcome today in many ways might be quite different with today's slug-like the Breneke black magic 3" 602gr at a much higher velocity., ok... I'm not saying the big game cartridge can't outperform the 12ga slug gun, I'm just saying that 12ga with the right load in a nice size shotgun today is more than a match for a big Bear... where you might not get more than one or two shots off. If others would like to read the story here you go just click the PDF https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/treesearch/5573 Just my 0.2 Cheers.

Many Foster slugs from back in the day were jello-soft (some still are today), compared to the harder cast Brenneke slugs. The "SFMBPM" slug is one I shoot and use. Finished off a grizzly in the willows with one of those. They kick pretty good bit from an 870.
Killed the moose with their Black Magic Magnum. https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/black-magicr-magnum/

Both slugs will cut a ~0.73" hole full depth of penetration.

SFMBPM = Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum:
Sometimes you will need the full power. Our Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum is able to penetrate windshields, rims, tires and even engines. It incorporates an extra-hard alloy for maximum penetration, as its name implies. It was specially developed to police and military specifications.
Developed to police and military specifications, our Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum is the ultimate cartridge for demanding urban environments. It incorporates an extra-hard alloy for maximum penetration, as its name implies.
This means devastating power with the ability to penetrate windshields, wheel rims, tires and even engines. There is simply no more effective projectile for stopping modern day threats that often come in vehicles and protected by other barriers.

• Lead point with ribs that point to the right ensure smooth choke passage
• Patented rear slides into point after the impact

Distance	(yds)	0	25	50	75	100
Velocity	(fps)	1650	1416	1227	1090	998
Energy	(ft lbs)	3545	2612	1959	1546	1298
Trajectory	(inches)	-2.00	+0.50	+1.90	+1.90	0.00

Caliber	Packaging unit	Weight	Item No.
12 GA 2¾''	5 units	602 grs

 

[Mmac52280]

Many Foster slugs from back in the day were jello-soft (some still are today), compared to the harder cast Brenneke slugs. The "SFMBPM" slug is one I shoot and use. Finished off a grizzly in the willows with one of those. They kick pretty good bit from an 870.
Killed the moose with their Black Magic Magnum. https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/black-magicr-magnum/

Both slugs will cut a ~0.73" hole full depth of penetration.

"SFMBPM" ​= Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum:
Sometimes you will need the full power. Our Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum is able to penetrate windshields, rims, tires and even engines. It incorporates an extra-hard alloy for maximum penetration, as its name implies. It was specially developed to police and military specifications.
Developed to police and military specifications, our Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum is the ultimate cartridge for demanding urban environments. It incorporates an extra-hard alloy for maximum penetration, as its name implies.
This means devastating power with the ability to penetrate windshields, wheel rims, tires and even engines. There is simply no more effective projectile for stopping modern day threats that often come in vehicles and protected by other barriers.

• Lead point with ribs that point to the right ensure smooth choke passage
• Patented rear slides into point after the impact

Distance	(yds)	0	25	50	75	100
Velocity	(fps)	1650	1416	1227	1090	998
Energy	(ft lbs)	3545	2612	1959	1546	1298
Trajectory	(inches)	-2.00	+0.50	+1.90	+1.90	0.00

Caliber	Packaging unit	Weight	Item No.
12 GA 2¾''	5 units	602 grs

Before prices got stupid, I bought 20 boxes. They make great stocking stuffers at Christmas.

 

[WildRose]

I don't disagree that big game cartridges aren't the best for any big game, however, the 39-year-old 1983 report used a 12ga 2 3/4 inch with 1 oz 438gr Foster type slug in their test against big game powerhouses like the 460 Wby Mag and 375 H&H Mag... I think the outcome today in many ways might be quite different with today's slug-like the Breneke black magic 3" 602gr at a much higher velocity., ok... I'm not saying the big game cartridge can't outperform the 12ga slug gun, I'm just saying that 12ga with the right load in a nice size shotgun today is more than a match for a big Bear... where you might not get more than one or two shots off. If others would like to read the story here you go just click the PDF https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/treesearch/5573 Just my 0.2 Cheers.

The problem with any and all of them is the need to put a fatal shot where it belongs under the stress of an attack.

At least the semi autos give us more opportunities to succeed in those few often fatal seconds.

Whatever you carry for bear defense though just like in self defense you'd better be fully familiar, competent, and confident with it and have enough practice to get the eye hand coordination to the point it's automatic.

Bears rarely launch a full on attack on humans but when they do they mean business and they can accelerate instantly to about 30mph or more even quicker than a quarter horse for short bursts so a charge from 50 yards is only going to give you a max of 2-3 seconds to get your first effective round on target to hopefully at least slow it down or turn it.

 

[WildRose]

At a gunsmith earlier this year. The smith showed me a 375 H & H mag rifle he was building. A 700 action and in a shorten barrel open slights, for a guide in Alaska. Now I don't know much hunting Brown bears in Alaska, but have read a lot on it over a great many years. Back to rifle, I felt it could be swag quickly and pointed not aimed to fire if time wasn't there to aimed. That depends on your skill. At the same time you can't pup your pants, make be afterwards. I put those bears in the area as hunting man.

Ruger makes both an Alaskan and Guide Model in 375 with a short, 20" Bbl. I bought one for my first trip to Africa and it performed outstandingly and was quite easy to handle in the thick stuff both there and in Texas.

 

[Mmac52280]

Ruger makes both an Alaskan and Guide Model in 375 with a short, 20" Bbl. I bought one for my first trip to Africa and it performed outstandingly and was quite easy to handle in the thick stuff both there and in Texas.

I haven't hunted bears, so in my mind, the smallest thing I would carry for bear defense is a https://barrett.net/products/firearms/model-82a1/
with the 20" barrel.

 

[Pdvdh]

The problem with any and all of them is the need to put a fatal shot where it belongs under the stress of an attack.

At least the semi autos give us more opportunities to succeed in those few often fatal seconds.

Whatever you carry for bear defense though just like in self defense you'd better be fully familiar, competent, and confident with it and have enough practice to get the eye hand coordination to the point it's automatic.

Bears rarely launch a full on attack on humans but when they do they mean business and they can accelerate instantly to about 30mph or more even quicker than a quarter horse for short bursts so a charge from 50 yards is only going to give you a max of 2-3 seconds to get your first effective round on target to hopefully at least slow it down or turn it.

I favor pump shotguns for in-your-face bear defense. Will carry them if I have to return to a kill site to retrieve game meat, or follow-up a wounded bear into some brush. Semi-auto function is completely dependent on the shell being fired to work the action. Pump shotgun function is completely independent of the shells being fired. Pump shotguns function no matter the shotshell fed into their chamber.

Another reason I like the 870s is I've fired my 870s more than any of my other long arms. Began upland bird and waterfowl hunting with them at 14yrs old. I don't have to think about operation of an 870. 870 operation/function is burnt into my memory. As you've noted, can't afford any operational fumbling with your firearm with a charging bear... completely intent on killing.

 

[Mmac52280]

I favor pump shotguns for in-your-face bear defense. Will carry them if I have to return to a kill site to retrieve game meat, or follow-up a wounded bear into some brush. Semi-auto function is completely dependent on the shell being fired to work the action. Pump shotgun function is completely independent of the shells being fired. Pump shotguns function no matter the shotshell fed into their chamber.

Another reason I like the 870s is I've fired my 870s more than any of my other long arms. Began upland bird and waterfowl hunting with them at 14yrs old. I don't have to think about operation of an 870. 870 operation/function is burnt into my memory. As you've noted, can't afford any operational fumbling with your firearm with a charging bear, completely intent on killing.

My go to shotgun is a 43 year old Browning Auto 5, Light Twelve, except it's heavier than my 1100 3" magnum. It's mechanical action, not gas operated. It's never jammed or failed to feed a round. Recoil is sharper, but I think more reliable. Be my second choice if the Barret was left at home.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I favor pump shotguns for in-your-face bear defense. Will carry them if I have to return to a kill site to retrieve game meat, or follow-up a wounded bear into some brush. Semi-auto function is completely dependent on the shell being fired to work the action. Pump shotgun function is completely independent of the shells being fired. Pump shotguns function no matter the shotshell fed into their chamber.

Another reason I like the 870s is I've fired my 870s more than any of my other long arms. Began upland bird and waterfowl hunting with them at 14yrs old. I don't have to think about operation of an 870. 870 operation/function is burnt into my memory. As you've noted, can't afford any operational fumbling with your firearm with a charging bear... completely intent on killing.

Used an 870 for a very great many years. I just changed out barrels. Depending on what I was going to hunt. From 24" to 34" barrels. Some had changeable choke tube. Some didn't. I had a pet load of 1 3/8 of lead shot. I just changed out the size of shot, for what I was going to hunt. I did change to BPS shotguns, smother action from out of box. I have 410, 28, 20 and 12 gauges in 870, and 410, 28, 2-12 gauge in BPS. I don't use auto shotgun. I can brake down a pump in the field and get it back and going again. Auto a different story, but I have used auto shotgun much.

 

[WildRose]

I favor pump shotguns for in-your-face bear defense. Will carry them if I have to return to a kill site to retrieve game meat, or follow-up a wounded bear into some brush. Semi-auto function is completely dependent on the shell being fired to work the action. Pump shotgun function is completely independent of the shells being fired. Pump shotguns function no matter the shotshell fed into their chamber.

Another reason I like the 870s is I've fired my 870s more than any of my other long arms. Began upland bird and waterfowl hunting with them at 14yrs old. I don't have to think about operation of an 870. 870 operation/function is burnt into my memory. As you've noted, can't afford any operational fumbling with your firearm with a charging bear... completely intent on killing.

I like the 870 because it's probably the closest thing to a perfect all-around weapon ever invented.

Knowingly going after a wounded bear or similar situation to me is independent of what I'd carry for general bear defense when hunting or fishing.

Carrying an extra long gun or a long gun while wading rivers and streams to fish is an over sized pain in the butt.

 

[Mike Matteson]

That the big part is carring the extra firearm to handle a bear. Just how much can you carry?
At one time I looked a 44mg in a short barrel. I think is was a 4" and in a lighter form. Got to try a 500 S&W at the same place. I went with the 500 in a 4". Loaded with 325 gr copper plated bullet, using H110 @44.4grs and LRP. It develop 2101fps. It figure out at 3186fpe.
I would watch TV adds would show a fisherman pulling out 8.5" 500 SW. I would laugh. By the time he would get the 500 out that bear would have him for lunch.

 

[alaska]

Only one Slug to use 12Ga Brenneke Orginal Slug in cylinder choke
The Slug used in Alaska from Polar Bears to Grizzly and Brown Bear
I often carry my custom Marlin 1895 Trapper 45/70 with my 350gr Speer FN handloads.
My Glock 20 always is with me in Bear territory in Alaska with 220gr Hardcast bullets.
Bear charges are short and fast big boomer pistols are more of a handicap than help. The Glock 20 is very popular in Alaska. For 20 years I have carried a G20 and 629 in 44 mag in 4". Tried the 454 to much recoil for accurate fast shooting after recoil and recovery too much of a good thing.

 

[comfisherman]

We have a few 12 gauges on the boat. But I stand by my belief in my 375, the big loop 4570 hasn't been on the boat since 18. Guys prefer the stubby pump and the 1301, but I still stubbornly carry my 375....