Hikinghunter
Well-Known Member
another scrub with isso and a nylon brush, followed by a 4-hour soak in wipe-out. I think we are just about there. Going to give it one more overnight soak in wipe-out, then take it to the range again.
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World’s Dirtiest Gun
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Hikinghunter
Well-Known Member
Followed the instructions on the package. Put 2 pea-sized dabs on a nylon brush, then ran it through the barrel 10 times until it was dispersed over the brush. Ran dry patches until they came out clean. Did this 2x.
Only problem is that I now have a very dirty brush, which doesn't seem ideal. How do you wash isso off a brush? Bore solvent doesn't seem to dissolve it..
Ive had good luck with the 60-40-20 Routine explained on the Gunwerks site. I like the KG products. It's a lengthy process but cleans well.
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
I use a bronze brush with iosso. I find they work better for this application than nylon brushes. Put a couple of dabs on it and work it in the bristles. Run that back and forth about 15 times. (15 out and 15 back) Then I run a couple of dry patches followed by a couple of wet patches with BoreTech C4, then dry patches to clean it all out. Make sure to twist the brush clockwise in the neck area to clean out any carbon ring you may have. You will ruin a few brushes doing this but it's worth it to get the rifle shooting properly.
Hikinghunter
Well-Known Member
One more cleaning this morning with Isso. I gave up on being gentle and scrubbed the snot out of it for about 20 minutes with a nylon brush, then went back and scrubbed the throat/lands some more.
Everything is shiny clean from the lands forward. The only part I just can't get clean no matter how much I scrub is a bit of shallow rifling that tapers into the chamber. Since this is prior to the lands, I assume it won't affect accuracy. There's no rifling at all on the other side of the barrel from this. Just seems like I bit of very shallow rifling that's leftover after cutting the chamber.
It's clean a tiny bit up the barrel where the lands seem to start. You can see the firecracking and stubborn crud starting on the part of the rifling that tapers into the chamber.
here's a view of the chamber area, so you can see that little bit of rifling that tapers into the chamber, the part I can't get clean is on the upper left side of the photo, opposite the smooth part of the chamber on the lower right.
Everything is shiny clean from the lands forward. The only part I just can't get clean no matter how much I scrub is a bit of shallow rifling that tapers into the chamber. Since this is prior to the lands, I assume it won't affect accuracy. There's no rifling at all on the other side of the barrel from this. Just seems like I bit of very shallow rifling that's leftover after cutting the chamber.
It's clean a tiny bit up the barrel where the lands seem to start. You can see the firecracking and stubborn crud starting on the part of the rifling that tapers into the chamber.
here's a view of the chamber area, so you can see that little bit of rifling that tapers into the chamber, the part I can't get clean is on the upper left side of the photo, opposite the smooth part of the chamber on the lower right.
M1A1ABRAMS
Well-Known Member
Blue Wonder. The BEST bore cleaner??
I have dozens of bore cleaners strung out all over my reloading room. I’ve pretty much settled on CLR for carbon removal and KG for copper removal at this point. Recently a buddy cleaned a barrel of mine while he was using my gun and he brought it back looking like a MIRROR. Completely...
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
After reading your post, I believe you are using the wrong terminology to describe what you are looking at. Here is a picture of what is going on in your barrel.
From your pictures, it looks like you have the grooves and lands nice and clean. That is a good point to start with.
Your chamber needs to be clean so that the case seats in there properly. If you look at a loaded round, only the case sits inside the chamber. The bullet sits in the throat.
The mouth and throat area are ahead of the chamber and they need to be clean of any carbon rings because they may cause issues chambering a round and/or allowing the neck to expand when the bullet starts moving forward. This can cause excessive pressure (danger) and/or cause your groups to be large due to inconsistencies.
The area you are describing as not having any rifling is not the chamber, it is the throat. That area also needs to be clean because that is the first part of the barrel that the bullet touches or travels though. If there is a buildup of carbon, it may affect how the bullet contacts the lands and affect accuracy.
You definitely have a dirty barrel if it still has carbon after all of that. Keep scrubbing with iosso. Spin a bronze brush just in the mouth and throat area like I suggested. You may have to go up one size on the brush to work on that area. A bronze brush will not hurt your barrel. Iosso will not hurt your barrel.
From your pictures, it looks like you have the grooves and lands nice and clean. That is a good point to start with.
Your chamber needs to be clean so that the case seats in there properly. If you look at a loaded round, only the case sits inside the chamber. The bullet sits in the throat.
The mouth and throat area are ahead of the chamber and they need to be clean of any carbon rings because they may cause issues chambering a round and/or allowing the neck to expand when the bullet starts moving forward. This can cause excessive pressure (danger) and/or cause your groups to be large due to inconsistencies.
The area you are describing as not having any rifling is not the chamber, it is the throat. That area also needs to be clean because that is the first part of the barrel that the bullet touches or travels though. If there is a buildup of carbon, it may affect how the bullet contacts the lands and affect accuracy.
You definitely have a dirty barrel if it still has carbon after all of that. Keep scrubbing with iosso. Spin a bronze brush just in the mouth and throat area like I suggested. You may have to go up one size on the brush to work on that area. A bronze brush will not hurt your barrel. Iosso will not hurt your barrel.
Hikinghunter
Well-Known Member
You're right. The throat is what I was having trouble with. It has no rifling on one side, and shallow rifling on the other. I assume this is due to the fact that nothing is perfectly straight, so when they cut the throat into a very slightly curved barrel, it left a little residual rifling on one side.
I scrubbed it out with an oversize brush for 20 min or so and finally got it clean. As the title says, it was very, very dirty. I bought this used. I'm guessing the guy I got it from just never cleaned it. Might work with a .308, but seems like 28nos is infamous for needing frequent cleaning.
It's going to get a 20 min soak and cleaning with wipe-out after every range session going forward, hopefully I won't have to do the Isso scrubbing again for awhile.
After a deep-clean like this, I assume I'll need one or two "fouling rounds" before I start trying to group?
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
Are you saying that the lead into the lands is not even? More on one side of the throat than the other? If you suspect that, I would take it to a GS to have them look at it.
Is this a 28N? I don't remember you saying which cartridge it is. I have one and use Reloder 33 which is a very dirty powder and is why I clean mine so much. I've also heard that many factory loads run pretty hot and create a lot of carbon. The fire cracking in the throat is very typical of a 28N.
I clean mine after every session with iosso now. I like to start with a clean barrel every time. I've seen carbon start building up after only 15-20 shots. I can start shooting with a clean barrel and my groups don't change at all. I live in AZ so I don't store my rifles with any oil in the barrels.
Hikinghunter
Well-Known Member
Resurrecting an old thread here. I wound up sending this back with a note that the leads might not be even. They replaced the barrel under warrenty. So now I've got a brand new barrel to play with.
Question. What break-in procedure would you recommend for a new 28nos barrel? Based on experience- ya can't get copper fouling out of a 28 with anything but an extended scrub with isso (even starting with a totally clean barrel and just firing 10 rounds, the last barrel still needed some serous scrubbing). Wondering if I'll need to do isso scrubs for each break-in cleaning?
The manufacturer reccomends cleaning after each round for the first 5 shots, then after each 5 rounds for the next 15. That's 8 separate trips to the range and 8 scrubbing sessions back on my workbench. That'll take forever..
Alternatively I could just do 20-min soaks with wipe-out while I'm at the range and run a few patches through. Then I can do the whole break-in while I'm there. It won't get the copper fouling out, but it'll clean most of the carbon and other crud out of there. How important is it to clean copper fouling between each shot during break-in?
5 shots then clean x 5. 10 shots then clean x 5. 75 shots total. Should be in the ballpark then. Thereafter, clean after every range session. Good to go.
I had one like that, I thought about epoxying a cleaning brush to a sawzall to run in and out of the barrel. It took a solid week to find the pitting under the carbon and copper. It did shoot great but had a rough throat!
Bang4theBuck
Well-Known Member
I let the barrel tell.me when the break.in is done. Start the regimine above by C-130 but as soon as you notice a difference in how quickly the rifle cleans up, move from one shot to three shots. As soon as thecyhree shot groups clean up quickly, I would call it good. Just my 2 cents, and definately one of the highly debated topics....the bore scope will assist in analyzing how quickly it fouls.
