Winchester Model 70 Accuracy Issues - Help Needed

[WildRose]

I have a newer Model 70 Extreme Wether SS that I bought new last year that I am having accuracy issues with. I have already done the following work to it.

-New Timney Trigger installed
-Had gun smith glass bed the action
-Had gun smith recrown barrel

The gun will shoot Winchester 180 gr Ballistic silver tips at 1 MOA at 100 yards. All other ammo shoots terrible. It seems to throw all other bullets about 6" low. I am also having problems getting the gun to hold its accuracy at longer ranges.

I have tried the following ammo without success. I am talking 4" or larger groups at 100 yds that are 6" below my zero with the above mentioned ammo.

-Hornady Precision Hunter - 200 gr ELDX
-Federal - 180 gr Trophy Tip Bonded
-Winchester - 190 gr ABLR
-Nosler Trophy Grade - 190 ABLR
-Federal - 200 gr Edge TLR

Also with my scope zeroed for the 180 gr Ballistic Silver Tips I have about half a turn left on my knob for elevation adjustment. The scope is a Swarovski Z8i 2-16x50mm and it is mounted with Talley lightweight aluminum rings. Everything torqued to factory specs for rings and scope and the rings were lapped. I have the scope mounted as close to the bore as I can while still clearing the ocular with the bolt handle.

I am looking for advice on what I should do. This is the first Winchester I have owned that is not a shooter. I am wondering if there are any other measures I should take short of re-barrelling or selling the gun and starting over. Hand loading is not an option for me right now because I do not have the time for it.

Thanks for any constructive advice.

There's no logical reason for only one bullet to shoot well for you. It also makes no sense that you are running out of elevation adjustment. Did you start off with 0 MOA mounts? If you started with a 20-30MOA rail then it would make sense to be running short at the low end but certainly not at the high end.

What twist rate is your barrel? Too slow of a twist can cause issues with the heavier bullets but even a 1:10 twist barrel should be shooting everything up to the 200-210's with no problem.

I have the same rifle in 300wm. It started off about a 2moa shooter but after floating and bedding it it quickly became a sub MOA shooter. It really likes the Hornady Precision Hunter Ammo.

Now with your having trouble maintaining accuracy beyond 100 yards that's usually a user error problem. If it's right at a hundred it should be right at any range you're shooting out to at least 600-800yds.

 

[WildRose]

Well, I bought a new EW in 338 WM about 4 or 5 years ago. It could group 2 shots and totally throw the third (or the second). It also wouldn't eject spent brass reliably. It would spin it around and leave it sitting in the port. I had it re-done by a "professional" to a 338 Norma Mag. What a nightmare! Then sent it off to another guy to rebarrel it to a 300 Win Mag. Haven't shot it yet. I pretty much hate looking at the thing.

IMO, these Winchester Extreme Weather's are like a trophy wife. All the right parts but nothing but misery. I don't know what I was thinking when I bought a rifle that had a barrel so thin, I could use it as a silly straw. Winchester model 70 (modern), the rifleman's rifle. What a joke... After having owned one, all I can say is, "the new Winchester model 70 is for pretenders and nothing more". I was a bone head for buying one and have no plans for getting another.

Oh... and get this...

I called the Winchester dudes and asked about the accuracy of them. The first guy I talked to said they were the best thing he's ever shot. After I started having problems, the next guy told me to expect nothing better that 2-1/2" at 100 yards. Actually, the second guy was an honest man.

Don't waste your time with Winchester model 70. Just get a shotgun and shoot slugs out of it. But don't buy a Winchester shotgun. I have one and it's been nothing but problems.

Dang... don't ever trust a gunwriter. Put your trust in people who buy and shoot guns like you do.

I'd be willing to bet you got one built in S. Carolina. They had a hell of a time for a while with QC issues after the move.

I'll take a good Model 70 over just about anything else.

 

[WildRose]

If it's a 308 M70-EW, Winchesters website shows 22" sporter w/ 12 twist.

Ahh. 180's are going to be the top end of what it will stabilize.

Something still sounds very wrong with your scope or mounts though.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Ahh. 180's are going to be the top end of what it will stabilize.

Something still sounds very wrong with your scope or mounts though.

My bet is the lapped rings are the issue. Had this with a customer rifle. He had lapped the rings and after a lot of running in circles trying to find the problem we figured out that the lapped rings were unable to clamp tightly enough to keep the scope from moving. Changed the rings and life was good.

The running out of elevation adjustment is puzzling. I'm still looking at the mounts. Almost sounds like a 20moa offset that is backward.

Steve

 

[Ol'Gator]

Wouldn't be the first time bases were installed backwards.

 

[WildRose]

My bet is the lapped rings are the issue. Had this with a customer rifle. He had lapped the rings and after a lot of running in circles trying to find the problem we figured out that the lapped rings were unable to clamp tightly enough to keep the scope from moving. Changed the rings and life was good.

The running out of elevation adjustment is puzzling. I'm still looking at the mounts. Almost sounds like a 20moa offset that is backward.

Steve

Over lapping of rings leads to really strange results but I've never seen it done to such an extent it caused the scopes to run out of elevation travel.

I'm seriously thinking he's got the wrong mounts or has them installed backwards.

 

[WildRose]

Wouldn't be the first time bases were installed backwards.

Yep.

 

[ndczerwinski]

Yep.

I've been debating switching the mounts anyways but they are not backwards unless there is something I am totally missing the boat here on.

They are Talley one piece aluminum mounts. They don't have any MOA built into them, that's not even an offered option. And the Winchester actions have a different base geometry for the front and back of the receiver, so it's impossible to put the install mounts backwards because the holes won't line up.

 

[Hatrick]

Ndc, I am not familiar with that Swaro. Is it possible to remove the elevation knob and reset it to gain your elevation?

 

[ndczerwinski]

Ndc, I am not familiar with that Swaro. Is it possible to remove the elevation knob and reset it to gain your elevation?

The knob is actually an optional accessory. You zero it in, then the knob snaps on overtop. No resetting or tools required. Very nice but very pricey system.

 

[HARPERC]

.....I have been debating remounting the scope with a rail to see if the mounting really was the problem, but I am hesitant to stick another $250 in rail and rings into the gun........

Lemons exist, ammunition is expensive, and this is supposed to be fun. I get the hesitation, I've chased the various components until I had a full custom. It works, but wasn't a satisfying , or economical way to obtain a quality rifle. Sometimes you just have to cut it loose.

 

[jjmp]

your rite you cant reverse the bases on the Winchester action cause of the hole spacing, but try this take off yur talley rings ,price out a 20 moa rail to fit your md 70 action, weaver makes them , then buy some burris zee,rings with plastic inserts that hold great & don't scratch your scope! ring height should be High's so your 50 mm front bell clears your rail !, i'd bet MEDIUM'S will be to low!!!. then before you mount your scope make sure its in the middle of it tracking range with Height & windage. try and bore site your rifle by looking thru the barrel with your eye, if you don't know this , pm me at my inbox ..... thks

 

[jjmp]

did you check if its a S Carolina rifle like Wildrose said above? call Winchester and tell them your rifles sn.

 

[ndczerwinski]

It's a Portugal model. The barrels are stamped differently. I actually have a super grade model 70 that came out of the Carolina plant that is an absolute tax driver. That gun shot so well that it made me get the gun that is in question that is a total lemon. I am going to remount the scope with a Talley 20 moa rail and some seekins rings and see if that clears up some of the issues. Been trying to avoid that because rails make loading top load rifles a pain in the butt.