Why no consensus...holding forend and bipod to bag

[TDog78]

In reading some of the sticky's here and after reading some long range literature and then watching some long range on TV I am amazed at some of the basic level inconsistencies. Then again...I guess I am not surprised but want a good base here. I am not completely foreign to shooting longer distances but have only done so on p-dogs with my .204 and only to about 300 on larger game as I have not been presented with a longer shot yet. I did shoot a ton when younger and was a fantastic shot...really, never shot around anyone that I could not outshoot adults included. I shot almost every day throughout the year unless it was really crappy. Killed more prairie dogs than the plague Well I am not nearly as well practiced anymore but one thing I learned was everything on my end was all about consistency from grip to forend hold etc. I am starting to shoot a lot more again and want to clear up some things in my head first. Here are my questions.
1. Why is there no consensus on holding the forend of the weapon regardless of shooting position so you are always imparting as similar a force as possible. I am talking bipod, backpack, etc. If you are laying prone and shooting off of a short bipod and hold the forend and then let go will it not change the point of impact? I understand sometimes it really helps to have the support hand float back and puff up your rear support or stabilize the rear but if you sighted in holding and change that how screwed are you.

2. If you sight in with a bipod on and find yourself in an awkward shooting position where you need to place the bipod on a your daypack (folded) then how much will it change impact now that there is a less rigid ground contact point bouncing off the soft pack instead of bipod legs on the ground? I was amazed how much my impact changed when I shot my bipod off of a harder surface compared to dirt.

3. How much will you change your impact if say you sight in with a bipod on and then it is removed in the field for whatever reason?

4. Do any of you only shoot off of a pack laying down or vertical if you need more support elevation and always hold the forend? To me this seems the most consistent. Just saw a guy drop and antelope on Gunwerks and they trained for days on level ground with a short mounted bipod and then shot one off of his pack standing up...those kinds of things worry me.

Thanks everyone for any input.

 

[Lpart]

Tagging in

 

[Rich Coyle]

me too

 

[Barrelnut]

Very observant there TDog. In the end you need to try all positions and configs and see how they affect your accuracy and the scenarios you experience in the field.

I sight my hunting rifles in with a bipod. I never remove that bipod, if I have to shoot off a pack or tree limb etc. removing the weight of the bipod, for me, affects my vertical, a lot, at longer ranges. I also like to hold the forearm with consistent pressure. My groups are always tighter that way in a hunting weight rifle. I think that rear bag squeeze thing comes from watching too many sniper movies.

 

[Bullet bumper]

It all depends on how the gun likes to be shot . There is no consensus because there is many different types and designs of guns with many different recoils involved. As barrelnut has already basically said.
Some guns will track rearward better than others and no need to hold for end but some big kickers that are not very heavy might benefit to be held down on the front rest. I like this barrelnut person , very knowledgeable.
Oh and by the way my Mother has traveled the Oregon trail in a Mule drawn Covered wagon back in early 1900's I would have to get out old document to get the exact date .

 

[WyoElk2Hunt]

The most important thing you can do to keep your shots consistent is to do do the same thing every time. From holding the forearm to not holding the forearm to the bubble to the placement of your cheek on the stock. This shows up more in archery shooting than rifle but results are the same.

 

[ShtrRdy]

You really need to try different situations yourself to see where the POI is. Another variable is practicing in a T-shirt and hunting with heavy clothing on. This will effect POI also.

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

A proper utilized sling comes to mind in regards to your questions, as it is a very simple yet effective way to "lock" in the rifle from pretty much any shooting position; even when using a bipod from prone position.

And by utilizing the sling you keep barrel harmonics free from "heavy handed" pressure.

And by utilizing the sling while using bipod from prone position you actually apply an opposite force of the "rifle hop" you may get from being out of perfect shooting position/posture.

And by utilizing the sling while shooting off backpack (prone or sitting, etc) you get the same "hard hold" you would from preloading bipod.

And by utilizing the sling while shooting offhanded with rifle supported on tree limb, you can loop the sling around the limp and get even more solid hold position.

Etc Etc Etc

A very good sling that is easy to adjust "on the fly" is worth the weight of your rifle in gold

THEIS

 

[TDog78]

It all depends on how the gun likes to be shot . There is no consensus because there is many different types and designs of guns with many different recoils involved. As barrelnut has already basically said.
Some guns will track rearward better than others and no need to hold for end but some big kickers that are not very heavy might benefit to be held down on the front rest. I like this barrelnut person , very knowledgeable.
Oh and by the way my Mother has traveled the Oregon trail in a Mule drawn Covered wagon back in early 1900's I would have to get out old document to get the exact date .

To plays devils advocate here I would think the same foundation and theory should be the same regardless; only the results might change with one setup more or less than another. Either you should hold the fore end all the time or not... only with some setups you might be able to get away with it more. I am kind of black and white with things like this since to me it really it boils down to mechanics and physical laws. The OCD side of me would definitely test things on individual rigs and setups but the theory base may drive how persistent I am on a setup or how much effort I may give depending on how critical the application of said theory needs to be.

 

[TDog78]

You really need to try different situations yourself to see where the POI is. Another variable is practicing in a T-shirt and hunting with heavy clothing on. This will effect POI also.

Agreed !!!

 

[TDog78]

Hello,

A proper utilized sling comes to mind in regards to your questions, as it is a very simple yet effective way to "lock" in the rifle from pretty much any shooting position; even when using a bipod from prone position.

And by utilizing the sling you keep barrel harmonics free from "heavy handed" pressure.

And by utilizing the sling while using bipod from prone position you actually apply an opposite force of the "rifle hop" you may get from being out of perfect shooting position/posture.

And by utilizing the sling while shooting off backpack (prone or sitting, etc) you get the same "hard hold" you would from preloading bipod.

And by utilizing the sling while shooting offhanded with rifle supported on tree limb, you can loop the sling around the limp and get even more solid hold position.

Etc Etc Etc

A very good sling that is easy to adjust "on the fly" is worth the weight of your rifle in gold

THEIS

Something I just read about in Nathan Fosters books. I definitely in not a sling ninja and know that my current inventory is not conducive to being utilized as described. Any suggestions on a particularly good sling. All of mine are almost like bridal leather and not pliable enough.

 

[catamountsierra]

I lean towards the heavy 1 1/4" nylon slings, like the SuperSling. I don't like padded slings because the pad gets in the way of using the sling when shooting. A good sling is a necessity, and I usually buy one at the same time as the rifle because I always want one and rarely want to be bothered with moving it from one rifle to another.

 

[bigngreen]

A lot f this goes away when you set rifle up to track and you stop death gripping your rig and let it ride a front and rear support, my rifles track back very well and as such I can vary the front rear from a bipod to a tree and my hold and rifle movement will be the same, I've used a sage brush as a rear rest to shoot at long range because as long as the support is good the gun will track. If your not man handling the rifle there is way less stuff to manage to have consistency shot to shot.
I'm always working a rear rest usually a bag, most every serious long range shooter I know is running a rear bag with their of hand, most precision long range shooting is done either running a rear bag or running an adjustable front rest.
IMO if your shooting better by holding down your rifle you have a fundamental issue that needs addressed.

 

[Barrelnut]

Link below is an excellent read on rifle posture and hold for long range shooting, hunting in the field, with high powder rifles. One of the better articles I have read on the subject. It has helped my long range form while in the field considerably.

In the end, you need to do what works for you, but there are several books written on long range hunting shooting form that subscribe to this method.

There are several ways to accomplish this. I fluff the rear bag and then use cheek pressure to bring the crosshairs up to the target. Try to keep that pressure very constant, then a slight hold on the forend with a slight pull down. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with that form. All rifles want to torque left. It is the nature of the rotation of the bullet as it moves down the barrel.

Hold that Forend!