Why is Rel 26 so great??

[Calvin45]

The description of Progressive has nothing to do with burn rate.
There is no difference in burn rate as you describe, faster or slower is simply the rate at whichever burns faster or slower, this is changed in several ways, kernel size, size of hole/s in the kernel, kernel length then we get into flash suppressor chemicals, retardant chemicals, coating etc, etc.
Trivergent powders are the new age, but they are not common in small arms ammunition. Very present in military stuff bigger than 50 cal.
The powders you list have 'special' formulations, nothing more and they do not burn progressively differently, they do however produce more gas per kernel due to being Double base.

Cheers.

Never heard of triple based powders as being called "trivergent" either! Maybe an Australian thing…I am familiar with those; in addition to the nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin bases there's nitroguanidine. It has a lower flame temp and higher gas volume but is harder to get burning in the first place. Used in minuscule quantities in many "flash suppressed" small arms powders as it does shift the light emission from the white part of the spectrum towards the red thus making the flash seem dimmer.

Double base and progressive are not synonymous in my understanding. There are double base ball powders and double base stick powders. Some powders really do have dynamic burn rates that are hard to pin down and NOT a constant throughout the burn down the barrel…SUPERFORMANCE is one of them. The pressure curve is much more rounded and plateaued near the crest of the wave on some powders and a straight up and down spike on others.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Double base and progressive are not synonymous in my understanding

I already outlined the differences.
Working for Thales (ADI) for several years, the maker of both Double base and Single base powders, there are 2 common powder types, Divergent, which means the powder, mostly Ball, but Flake too, gets smaller in surface area until consumed. The entire surface burns.
Progressive, which means it burns from the outside and the inside evenly until consumed and releases less and less gas as it gets smaller.
Neutral burning is not used very much, but is used for shotgun powder and the kernel burns as a whole producing gas as a constant.
Your understanding of what is Progressive burning has nothing to with burn rate, both single base stick and double base stick powders are Progressive burning powders.
Just because a burn curve is different does not infer the powder burning make-up has changed.
Trivergant is not triple based powder, it is HOW the powder burns.
There are 3 types of powder burn, Digressive, Neutral and Progressive.
Trivergent describes a burn that is Progressive but dismisses gas release as the kernel reduces size. Such as the powder used in large cannons on ships.

Cheers.

 

[Calvin45]

I already outlined the differences.
Working for Thales (ADI) for several years, the maker of both Double base and Single base powders, there are 2 common powder types, Divergent, which means the powder, mostly Ball, but Flake too, gets smaller in surface area until consumed. The entire surface burns.
Progressive, which means it burns from the outside and the inside evenly until consumed and releases less and less gas as it gets smaller.
Neutral burning is not used very much, but is used for shotgun powder and the kernel burns as a whole producing gas as a constant.
Your understanding of what is Progressive burning has nothing to with burn rate, both single base stick and double base stick powders are Progressive burning powders.
Just because a burn curve is different does not infer the powder burning make-up has changed.
Trivergant is not triple based powder, it is HOW the powder burns.
There are 3 types of powder burn, Digressive, Neutral and Progressive.
Trivergent describes a burn that is Progressive but dismisses gas release as the kernel reduces size. Such as the powder used in large cannons on ships.

Cheers.

Woah! I definitely learned something there about the trivergent thing!

So back to progressive….how do they make it to burn from the inside out and the outside in at the same time? Is that like why it almost looks like There's a little hole in the end of the kernels for some kinds of stick powders?

 

[MagnumManiac]

You are correct, the kernel is perforated, most are single perforation, but some have multiple perforations. H50BMG has several.
Many powders are hard to see the perforation due to it being covered by graphite coatings.

Cheers.

 

[akmtnhnt]

What do you use Lever evolution for? I got some of it for my .35 Remington and it's great but does it have applications in faster cartridges? Just curious.

I use it in 277 fury, but it's normally the fastest thing for cartridges where you have to stuff a lot of the bullet into the case. It packs a lot of weight in a small area.. it's dense. Something like putting a 100gr copper bullet in a 243win with saami coal. Anything 308 sized and under with bullets that are longer than it was designed for and end up using a lot of case, it really shines.

 

[Muddyboots]

Although I have sufficient RL26, the powder shortages led me back to ball powders and have been pleasantly surprised and pleased with results. Excellent velocity, good ES SD, great case fill, powder measure loves it. It seems like over the years that ball powders became looked at with disdain. Ramshot has become a really good option for several cartridges. Even good old Winchester 760 has been refreshing to see results. The good old 06 said thank you for returning to roots. The best is the ball powders are available and cost effective.

But as @Calvin45 stated, RL26 in the .270 is absolutely nuts. And yes, the stash is saved for it!

 

[unclecroc]

I have moved away from Alliant powder because of availability. No doubt it's good stuff rl16 is a favorite of mine, but it does me no good if I can't get any of it.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

First it was the Enduron serious and now the Alliant line of powders. You end up with all these powders in your personal inventory that you don't even want to work up loads for because you know you can't replace the powder. Just how much of this stuff can you put in the tomatoe garden?

 

[FEENIX]

Lately I have seen Rel 26 prices soar. What makes it so great compared to other powders in it's class? I have several 1 lb containers of the Rel 26. Yes it gives me very good performance in my 6.5's. But , so does Ramshot magnum. The Ramshot is a tick slower burning , & requites one to two more grains for he same performance for half the cost of Rel 26.

I do not know who labeled RL26 as a great powder, but there are too many powders to rely on just one, especially when YMMV. I make what is available for me work for my intended purpose. I have been using the Ramshot line for a while now. About three years ago, our local Scheels had a few of them at $28, and no one was buying them, so I slowly loaded up. Today, they are in the $50 and up range. At one time, I only used H extreme powders. Now, I no longer worry about powder sensitivity and adjust it according to my load development and hunting times. I do not operate in the -20 to 100 °F zone and expect them to work at this temperature range. I have reduced that range significantly by finalizing my load in early October and hunting from October to November. I might be alone in this mindset, but that's OK; it has worked for me for a while now.

 

[KsKevin]

I use RL23 in a LOT of loads.
It has been VERY scarce for the last few years, but not as bad as RL26. I got 16# last year, which was the first I had seen it available in 2 years. Now...who knows when we will see it again.

Time to find replacement powder choices. VV N565 is a good choice.

Lance, how are your 280ai loads using VV565 compared to RL23 for 160-180g class bullets? Have you been able to achieve similar speed & accuracy?

 

[Dloh2o1]

I am not buying into what the manufacturers and distributors are saying. It's kind of like some of the bourbons I used to prefer. Blantons restricted their supply and prices doubled. Now they have set a much more profitable price point. FOMO (fear of missing out) has set in and people will pay whatever price they put on it.

The difference is there are hundreds of alternatives to Blanton's, not so many alternatives to RL26

 

[MOA or bust]

I agree with Varmint Hunter, I have half a pound of this powder and a half pound of that, and although they're great powders, I don't have enough of any one of them to work up a load.
Maybe we can swap around some so to get at least a pound of something.

 

[Calvin45]

I agree with Varmint Hunter, I have half a pound of this powder and a half pound of that, and although they're great powders, I don't have enough of any one of them to work up a load.
Maybe we can swap around some so to get at least a pound of something.

Nah just mix them all together and guess the burn rate, right?

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I agree with Varmint Hunter, I have half a pound of this powder and a half pound of that, and although they're great powders, I don't have enough of any one of them to work up a load.
Maybe we can swap around some so to get at least a pound of something.

If you live near me (Long Island) I'd be happy to give you all of my orphaned powders.
I'm still using some Enduron powders just for making "barrel fouling loads". I've got enough Alliant powder that I could foul barrels for a living. I won't miss RE26 because it's hard on barrels and sensitive to high temps but RE23 is a great powder and shoots very well in several of my rifles.

Fortunately for me, I've been using a lot of Varget, H4350 and H1000, all still available at the moment.

Looks like VV will be getting a lot of new customers from our US shooters..