Why Doesn't Berger make a Bonded Bullet??

[Varmint Hunter]

When I began varmint hunting about a zillion years ago, I was shocked to see that I could easily shoot a 55gr varmint bullet from my 22-250 and have it pass cleanly through an I beam. It wasn't long before we were stretching distances and shooting at dimes to display our new found skills. A varmint bullet would pass through a dime so fast that it wouldn't even push it through the cardboard backer. I'm not sure how they still expanded violently on groundhogs but they did.

 

[BoomFlop]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I think I'm understanding bigngreen's interpretation on what makes a bullet function.

I believe he is stating that a Berger (hollow point) tip is expanded by hydraulic pressure, thus it penetrates steel (or bone). Where as, an Accubond (tipped point) is expanded by resistance, this not penetrating steel (or bone).

So a tipped bullet starts expanding as soon as it meets resistance, but a hollow point requires the inside cavity (mostly water) before it starts expansion.

I can buy that.

Steve

 

[Ingwe]

When I began varmint hunting about a zillion years ago, I was shocked to see that I could easily shoot a 55gr varmint bullet from my 22-250 and have it pass cleanly through an I beam. It wasn't long before we were stretching distances and shooting at dimes to display our new found skills. A varmint bullet would pass through a dime so fast that it wouldn't even push it through the cardboard backer. I'm not sure how they still expanded violently on groundhogs but they did.

Funny you say that because I have a quarter on my key chain that I shot thought with my 7mm after taping it to a cardboard backer.

I too am amazed that the bullet punches a clean hole through it without knocking it through the cardboard.

Maybe a really smart guy here can tell us the physics of this

 

[5.56×250]

Funny you say that because I have a quarter on my key chain that I shot thought with my 7mm after taping it to a cardboard backer.

I too am amazed that the bullet punches a clean hole through it without knocking it through the cardboard.

Maybe a really smart guy here can tell us the physics of this

I'm NOT smart.......but I regurgitate with the best of them. I say velocity is why you can blow through a metal medium without the object being thrown through the cardboard.
In my years of studying magazine articles , one I ran across many years ago spoke to velocity and its effect on metal. A test was set up with a 1/2" plate and 3 rifles. A 45 70, 308, and a double shouldered 22 cal wildcat on an 06 case. The tank (45-70) was shot first at 100 yards. Its 405gn soft point etched a splat on the steel. The 165gn soft point from the 308 left a .30+ cal hole and created a rupture funnel in the steel that was about an inch in diameter. The 55gn soft point from the 22-06 blew a hole about 1.5 inches in diameter in the steel and a rupture cone that was 4" in diameter. Velocity is the magic ingredient in the feats your referring to.

 

[Ingwe]

I'm NOT smart.......but I regurgitate with the best of them. I say velocity is why you can blow through a metal medium without the object being thrown through the cardboard.
In my years of studying magazine articles , one I ran across many years ago spoke to velocity and its effect on metal. A test was set up with a 1/2" plate and 3 rifles. A 45 70, 308, and a double shouldered 22 cal wildcat on an 06 case. The tank (45-70) was shot first at 100 yards. Its 405gn soft point etched a splat on the steel. The 165gn soft point from the 308 left a .30+ cal hole and created a rupture funnel in the steel that was about an inch in diameter. The 55gn soft point from the 22-06 blew a hole about 1.5 inches in diameter in the steel and a rupture cone that was 4" in diameter. Velocity is the magic ingredient in the feats your referring to.

I bet you are right lol!

I even shot a 17HMR through a quarter at 100yds. Neat 17cal hole and the backer didn't even budge

 

[Overkill338]

Another Berger failure

 

[BoomFlop]

I can find "failures" on every bullet made. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. Far too many factors that cannot be accounted for.

I personally have had a Partition fires from a 25-06 fail to penetrate the shoulder of a whitetail at 75 yards. Dropped on the spot, as I'm collecting my things it gets up and runs over the hill never to be seen again. I'm not saying it is a bad design or anything. It just didn't work in that situation.

If a perfect bullet existed for every situation, we would all be shooting it and no other bullet manufacturer would be in business.

This horse has been dead since page 2, yet I still keep reading and even responding to it. Don't know why?

Steve

 

[Overkill338]

I can find "failures" on every bullet made. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. Far too many factors that cannot be accounted for.

I personally have had a Partition fires from a 25-06 fail to penetrate the shoulder of a whitetail at 75 yards. Dropped on the spot, as I'm collecting my things it gets up and runs over the hill never to be seen again. I'm not saying it is a bad design or anything. It just didn't work in that situation.

If a perfect bullet existed for every situation, we would all be shooting it and no other bullet manufacturer would be in business.

This horse has been dead since page 2, yet I still keep reading and even responding to it. Don't know why?

Steve

I can find failures for any bullet too. As well as broad heads, traps, snares etc

We have been discussing Berger, and that came up in one of my groups. It is appropriate to post it here, is it not?

I'm sure there are failures for Partitions, A-Frames, and all the other "dependable" bullets. I've shot Bergers, but not at game. I see guys using them all the time successfully. I just don't like that they are made to fragment.

Again, whomever it was said they haven't seen an "exploding bullet", watch the video Berger sent me. They say plain as day, they are designed to lose 90% of their mass through fragmentation.

 

[Overkill338]

@bigngreen

Here, Berger can tell you themselves that their bullets "explode"

 

[TexSavage]

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but I'm posting my entry and exit wound pics from my Scimitar Oryx hunt this past weekend. First pic is entry of two rounds between ribs of 300WSM 215Berg Hybrid @ 2780 fps, distance 80-100 yards. Second pic is exit. I did not get a pic of what it looked like on the outside, but my best recollection was about a 2" hole that penetrated the off shoulder low exiting slightly above the first leg joint below the shoulder blade. As previously stated, upper half of heart gone, most of two lungs gone. This has been typical of white tails and hogs taken over the past several years with this 215 hybrid out of this rifle. Wish I could get an elk, but in Texas, probably ain't gonna happen.

Sorry for the uh red uh, well heck this is a hunting forum!

Also, my three buddies shot another Oryx and 2 red deer hinds with 7MM Mag and 139 grain Hornady SST, similar distance, same type results. They were getting velocities of around 3150 fps.

 

[Overkill338]

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but I'm posting my entry and exit wound pics from my Scimitar Oryx hunt this past weekend. First pic is entry of two rounds between ribs of 300WSM 215Berg Hybrid @ 2780 fps, distance 80-100 yards. Second pic is exit. I did not get a pic of what it looked like on the outside, but my best recollection was about a 2" hole that penetrated the off shoulder low exiting slightly above the first leg joint below the shoulder blade. As previously stated, upper half of heart gone, most of two lungs gone. This has been typical of white tails and hogs taken over the past several years with this 215 hybrid out of this rifle. Wish I could get an elk, but in Texas, probably ain't gonna happen.

Sorry for the uh red uh, well heck this is a hunting forum!
View attachment 158893 View attachment 158894

You guys are slobs lol

 

[BoomFlop]

That is what a Berger is suppose to do by design. To expect anything else is not a product issue but a knowledge issue.

Again, I don't think we can have everything from any bullet. I choose a bullet that gives me the best chance of having the performance I want by what they are suppose to do. Really, as consumers, that is all we can do.

Have a great evening!
Steve

 

[TexSavage]

You guys are slobs lol

Yeah, all the way to the freezer last night. The place we hunted would not allow us to do the skinning or field dressing. Nice to have a huge crane/winch and a hose to wash it all out. First time to hunt a cull hunt on a game ranch and first time on a game ranch period. Interesting experience. Those dang Oryx and red deer ran from one end of the place to the other. We stalked on foot. The Oryx are quite fast and quite elusive in the area we hunted. Lots of canyons, breaks, brush, etc. Was fun.

 

[Overkill338]

Yeah, all the way to the freezer last night. The place we hunted would not allow us to do the skinning or field dressing. Nice to have a huge crane/winch and a hose to wash it all out. First time to hunt a cull hunt on a game ranch and first time on a game ranch period. Interesting experience. Those dang Oryx and red deer ran from one end of the place to the other. We stalked on foot. The Oryx are quite fast and quite elusive in the area we hunted. Lots of canyons, breaks, brush, etc. Was fun.

So it wasn't exactly "hunting in a fence" ?

My uncle killed a Russian Bore in one of those places where the animals are almost tame. They just set you in a stand and wait for them to come in for feeding time. I told him I'd tie a goat to a tree if he wanted to pay me thousands of dollars for a hunt lol he got so mad