Why 7STW over 300WM?

[Lefty7mmstw]

My experience and yours in barrel life of the 300 win v/s the STW differ a lot. But I will offer this, for the next time you shoot a 215 Hybrid. Try H-1000 and a fed 215 in a large capacity case , not RWS brass but WW, Norma or even RP. Anyway, the shorter bearing surface of the only 215 I am aware of (Berger Hybrid O-give) actually allows me to get 30 to 50 fps more velocity than I did with 210 VLD's. At 1 gr less of H-1000 same lot powder and same brass.

How many different loads with 215 Bergers have you tested in your 300 win?

Thanks!

Jeff

I'm used to the 200 partition and sierra match or the 220 sierra match in win brass. I do not use berger. Sierra, nosler, and hornady have served my pipes pretty well. I do use some barnes when I want a lead free pill. My current 300 win is a lh browning stalker ss with a rather short mag and throat that restrict capacity a bit.
I usually use the browning for situations where the critters are running and shots won't be over 500-600 yards. I've actually gone to a 165 hornady at 3250 fps pushed with rl22 to get the mid range time of flight down. It is also the most accurate load in that pipe.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Actually I love all you Koolaid drinkers, keeps the internet interesting. There have been more brass options come on line since I last was around one which is a good thing, I stand corrected. The 7 STW has no advantage over any other cartridge that will run the same bullets, it's just another way of launching them, it's killing capability has far more to do with the bullet and the shooter than the case!

The local gun shop has been sitting on 7 STW brass for years due to it's popularity, I was thinking of buying it and making a 270 STW to launch some new 170gr bullet that need launched faster than my WSM.

Buy the brass and sell it here; There are a few guys here looking for brass lately. I've bought my town out already and I don't expect to see any stw brass until fall. I may reform some 375 h@h or 416 rem from my lgs; he's got a good bunch of that stuff and I think some is norma. The stw can be made from any belted full length case, unlike the 300 win, which can't be made from either the 2.5" case OR the 2.85" case. You are pretty much stuck on 300 win brass or you've got some serious case forming to do, not just necking down.

 

[Broz]

I'm used to the 200 partition and sierra match or the 220 sierra match in win brass. I do not use berger. Sierra, nosler, and hornady have served my pipes pretty well. I do use some barnes when I want a lead free pill. My current 300 win is a lh browning stalker ss with a rather short mag and throat that restrict capacity a bit.
I usually use the browning for situations where the critters are running and shots won't be over 500-600 yards. I've actually gone to a 165 hornady at 3250 fps pushed with rl22 to get the mid range time of flight down. It is also the most accurate load in that pipe.

Ok, Thanks! That explains why your estimate for a 215 you stated was off 150 fps or so, you haven't loaded them.

So you make running shots on deer at 500-600 yards? I take may hat off to your sir. I would have zero confidence on that shot with my shooting skills. I am not even sure I would waste my ammo to try for a coyote in those conditions. Do you dial for a shot like that and lead it, or just hold the reticle over and add a proper lead? I would think that would mean the cross hairs would be in front and above the deer?? That would be a tuff shot and how would one even practice for it? I could see where a fast bullet would be of use in this situation. But I guess I just don't need to take that kind of shot often where I hunt.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[clrblu22]

Gents -

Thanks to all of you for your posts. This is great data. I must say, it still looks like the 300wm is the gun to beat. Not to mention the Brass and Bullet selection is significantly better.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Ok, Thanks! That explains why your estimate for a 215 you stated was off 150 fps or so, you haven't loaded them.

So you make running shots on deer at 500-600 yards? I take may hat off to your sir. I would have zero confidence on that shot with my shooting skills. I am not even sure I would waste my ammo to try for a coyote in those conditions. Do you dial for a shot like that and lead it, or just hold the reticle over and add a proper lead? I would think that would mean the cross hairs would be in front and above the deer?? That would be a tuff shot and how would one even practice for it? I could see where a fast bullet would be of use in this situation. But I guess I just don't need to take that kind of shot often where I hunt.

Thanks!
Jeff

My farthest kill on a moving whitetail with a 7mm was well over 600 yards with a cross wind with my 7rum. He was moving downwind and the shot was a bit down hill which helped the lead/raise a bit and I popped off at about a body and a half over the ears and two lengths and change in front. Got him at the diaphram and the top 1/4 of the body. That was the first shot in the field for that rifle; my brother called me off just as I let fly. The next morning I put up a 700 yard shot on a mule deer doe with the 7rum.
The next year I knocked off a full run antelope at 1/4 mile flat with a 30 mph + cross wind. That one took two shots to guage the lead. I had to have the **** critter's nose at the edge of the scope to hit mid body at 16x. I had two sprained shoulders from messing around with my son (jumping around on haybales with a toddler in your arms just before hunting season isn't advisable) so I wasn't going out hunting another day. It hurt to **** much to shoulder and raise the rifle.
That rifle was terribly fussy and only ate flat base bullets; I was pushing the 140 sierra pro hunter at 3500 fps with a heavy charge of rl25.
I've gone to 500 yards with my previous 7stw but haven't killed with this one yet; I really didn't trust it enough last year to let it play. I killed a spike mule deer between 500-600 yards out this year with my 500 win using 165 hornady pills. The dang thing was quartering away and the wind was horrible. It took a few shots but I got him; my boys got to see too as both of them and my wife were in the truck. The critter just happened to show up driving between spots. Previously, my last 300 win running kill was at 1/4 mile on a 4x4 mule deer buck.
I like to keep my time of flight as low as possible as I spot and stalk and never set up for extreme range (public land here in nd often has others on it). I don't usually have time to work with the scope. The critter just has to be there in the scope or the shot won't work. I set all rifles at 16x (unless they don't top out that high)in the field so I can judge range quicker.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

My experience and yours in barrel life of the 300 win v/s the STW differ a lot. But I will offer this, for the next time you shoot a 215 Hybrid. Try H-1000 and a fed 215 in a large capacity case , not RWS brass but WW, Norma or even RP. Anyway, the shorter bearing surface of the only 215 I am aware of (Berger Hybrid O-give) actually allows me to get 30 to 50 fps more velocity than I did with 210 VLD's. At 1 gr less of H-1000 same lot powder and same brass.

How many different loads with 215 Bergers have you tested in your 300 win?

Thanks!

Jeff

I used h1000 with 190 hornady bt's in my last 300 win and it did very well at just over 3000 fps with a 24" barrel. Less than 3" 1/4 mile groups off the hood of the truck.
I am looking for a bit higher bc bullet for my current 300 win but I need to keep the speed up for offhand moving kills. Would you think one of the 180ish grain offerings from berger would work well here?? I have rl22, rl25, and retumbo that I could use. I need to load to right around 3.34" as the mag isn't allowing much more than that and the throat is pretty short to boot. The mag length has kept my away from the nosler tipped offerings as the noses are to dang long.

 

[Broz]

I am looking for a bit higher bc bullet for my current 300 win but I need to keep the speed up for offhand moving kills. Would you think one of the 180ish grain offerings from berger would work well here?? .

Lefty, If you are making 700 yard or 1/4 mile kills on running deer, off hand, in 30 plus mile winds, just holding off with a deer almost out of your scopes field of view, then my knowledge and methods have nothing to offer you. I simply am in no way close to your league of shooting.

Thanks and good luck

Jeff

 

[BGE541]

Lefty, If you are making 700 yard or 1/4 mile kills on running deer, off hand, in 30 plus mile winds, just holding off with a deer almost out of your scopes field of view, then my knowledge and methods have nothing to offer you. I simply am in no way close to your league of shooting.

Thanks and good luck

Jeff

Accuracy by Volume But really D/VxS=L... Much more important then a "high BC projectile" for those difficult off hand standing shots on runners.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lefty, If you are making 700 yard or 1/4 mile kills on running deer, off hand, in 30 plus mile winds, just holding off with a deer almost out of your scopes field of view, then my knowledge and methods have nothing to offer you. I simply am in no way close to your league of shooting.

Thanks and good luck

Jeff

Usually offhand shooting from sitting position for shooting moving critters. I rolled back into dead frog (on your back with head up and one leg controlling the rifles el.) when I was younger, but at 35 it's a bit easier and quicker just to sit. You still use your legs to control el. as your knees and elbows are touching.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

So you make running shots on deer at 500-600 yards? I take may hat off to your sir. I would have zero confidence on that shot with my shooting skills. I am not even sure I would waste my ammo to try for a coyote in those conditions. Do you dial for a shot like that and lead it, or just hold the reticle over and add a proper lead? I would think that would mean the cross hairs would be in front and above the deer?? That would be a tuff shot and how would one even practice for it? I could see where a fast bullet would be of use in this situation. But I guess I just don't need to take that kind of shot often where I hunt.

Thanks!
Jeff

As far as learing deflection shooting on deer, I'm not sure anyone knows everything. I'm by no means a novice, but I surely don't know everything. I've botched my share of shots for sure.

The best practice for deflection shooting is probably actually shotgunning. Waterfowl hunting pass shooting ducks is probably going to teach you more in a week about where you need to be with the firearm to make the kill than a lifetime of big game hunting. Killing prarie dogs running between mounds helps a bit too.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Accuracy by Volume But really D/VxS=L... Much more important then a "high BC projectile" for those difficult off hand standing shots on runners.

Didn't get a standing shot this year. Did nail a mule deer with the 300 win at 150 yards standing and a whitetail at 100 yards standing last year though.

I take the shots as they are presented to me. On public land they aren't always the easiest. My family likes to eat though, so I will kill what I can and bring it home if I've got a tag for it.

 

[Broz]

As far as learing deflection shooting on deer, I'm not sure anyone knows everything. I'm by no means a novice,

I see, so that must be the professional term for shooting running deer at 600 yards with a 30 mph+ cross wind standing off hand or off your knee.

Hell where I grew up we always just called it a "Hail Mary" "Poke and Hope" or the preverbial "Spray and Pray" But I was hunting with novices.

Man those uber fast sevens must truly be magical!!!

jeff

 

[Broz]

double post

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I see, so that must be the professional term for shooting running deer at 600 yards with a 30 mph+ cross wind standing off hand or off your knee.

Hell were I grew up we always just called it a "Hail Mary" "Poke and Hope" or the preverbial "Spray and Pray" But I was hunting with novices.

Man those uber fast sevens must truly be magical!!!

jeff

And THAT is why I don't often speak of lang range shooting on moving animals. Even here where some of you guys have dumped critters at 1 mile, shooting at moving game will get the "morals" treatment. I'm pretty fair with a rifle but won't go over 700 yards or so whether they are moving or not.

I don't **** in your coffee about it if you want to take a critter down at 1,200 yards if it aint moving so please don't **** in mine if I dump a runner at 500 or 600 yards.