7STW vs. 300WM for elk hunting rifle??

[Broz]

I am pretty set on the 7STW but what do guys think of the 338WM over the 300WM for an elk rifle??

In my opinion, the 338 win represents the 338 family like a 7mm-08 represents the 7mm family. They are very useful to a distance but fall off quickly and limit the bullet weights best suited for the caliber. The result is a bullet with less sectional density which is not desirable to me, especially for elk.

You can shoot up to a 230 or 240 gr bullet from a 300 win. and a 225 or 250 works best in a 338 Win. I will take the 300 win every time here and if I feel I want the long range advantages of a 338 I will go for a real 338 like an EDGE, RUM, Lapua or 338 AI or the 338-378.

That said I feel the introduction of the 215 Berger Hybrid has done something incredible for the 300 win. It is my go to rifle for anything from antelope to large elk. I have taken more than a few antelope between 1000 and 1285 yards and many bull elk out to 1000. Hard to beat in my book unless you want to take elk past 1100, then I will opt for a big 338 and do it with authority.

Jeff

 

[MudRunner2005]

I am pretty set on the 7STW but what do guys think of the 338WM over the 300WM for an elk rifle??

.300 WinMag over .338 WinMag.

If you want a .338 caliber, go with atleast a .338 RUM.

 

[toader]

Again - I appreciate the info!!

Looks like I am going 300WM and 7STW...............if my parts ever get here!!!

 

[Timber338]

I am pretty set on the 7STW but what do guys think of the 338WM over the 300WM for an elk rifle??

For LR hunting, what everybody has said about the 338 not having enough velocity is correct. The 300wm wins hands down for LR over the 338wm.

Just for sake of conversation, I will say that for work in the dark timber and heavy oaks where elk love to hide, I would choose a 338 win mag and 250 grain pill all day long over anything else. I've shot elk within 20 yards in thick country and sometimes busting through oak bushes. But then again, this isn't shortrangehunting.com.

 

[MudRunner2005]

For LR hunting, what everybody has said about the 338 not having enough velocity is correct. The 300wm wins hands down for LR over the 338wm.

Just for sake of conversation, I will say that for work in the dark timber and heavy oaks where elk love to hide, I would choose a 338 win mag and 250 grain pill all day long over anything else. I've shot elk within 20 yards in thick country and sometimes busting through oak bushes. But then again, this isn't shortrangehunting.com.

Wouldn't you be much better off with a .444 Marlin, or .45-70 with LeverEvolutions at such close ranges with elk? Especially since I know all yall like those "heavy hitters" in the large diameters.

 

[Timber338]

Wouldn't you be much better off with a .444 Marlin, or .45-70 with LeverEvolutions at such close ranges with elk? Especially since I know all yall like those "heavy hitters" in the large diameters.

You are definitely right, the 45-70 is a sledgehammer up close isn't it. If I only hunted in the thick stuff I would use one.

My philosophy is to have more than enough gun for any scenario. whether that's up close, or far away, I want to be ready. The 338 fits pretty darn nice in my world.

 

[scf]

I know this is a topic with differing opinions but I will offer an example based on what can happen instead of what should happen. Last fall I went to Colorado armed with my new custom 7 STW and also armed with a "wealth of Internet Opinions". I was shooting 180 VLD for longer shots and 175 Swift A Frames for closer range. Both shot to the same zero point at 250 yards and I had a drop chart for each bullet. I was very confident in the rifle. The first morning of the hunt my guide asked me what I was shooting and I told him 7mm. He wasn't too fond of my answer saying the only elk lost on the ranch had been with 7 mm. I assured him I was not shooting a regular 7mm that my STW was shooting 180 Bergers over 3100 FPS. Four days later just after legal shooting hours I had my shot at a 5x5 bull at 421 yards with the 175 Swift. I was prone on a bipod with a rear bag. I couldn't see the crease behind the shoulder and honestly did not think it mattered. I took a shoulder shot and the bull instantly collapsed. Seconds later it was back on its feet and my rifle was hopelessly jammed. After 5 hours of looking with 3 people we never found a drop of blood and never found the elk. The guides did not find the elk in the following weeks. I hit the shoulder and the bullet failed to penetrate into the vitals. I have now switched to a 338 Lapua. I strongly feel that I would not have lost that elk if I had been shooting the Lapua. While many others choose lesser cartridges for elk my real world experience has convinced me that I need the margin of error afforded by the 338.

 

[Broz]

Good post scf, Lots to learn there from your real world experience.

Jeff

 

[MudRunner2005]

I will refrain from any further comments as I seem to be all alone on this forum...

 

[browtinehunter]

In my opinion, the 338 win represents the 338 family like a 7mm-08 represents the 7mm family. They are very useful to a distance but fall off quickly and limit the bullet weights best suited for the caliber. The result is a bullet with less sectional density which is not desirable to me, especially for elk.

You can shoot up to a 230 or 240 gr bullet from a 300 win. and a 225 or 250 works best in a 338 Win. I will take the 300 win every time here and if I feel I want the long range advantages of a 338 I will go for a real 338 like an EDGE, RUM, Lapua or 338 AI or the 338-378.

That said I feel the introduction of the 215 Berger Hybrid has done something incredible for the 300 win. It is my go to rifle for anything from antelope to large elk. I have taken more than a few antelope between 1000 and 1285 yards and many bull elk out to 1000. Hard to beat in my book unless you want to take elk past 1100, then I will opt for a big 338 and do it with authority.

Jeff

.358 STA Big Brother of the 7 mm STWgun)

 

[Marble]

I know this is a topic with differing opinions but I will offer an example based on what can happen instead of what should happen. Last fall I went to Colorado armed with my new custom 7 STW and also armed with a "wealth of Internet Opinions". I was shooting 180 VLD for longer shots and 175 Swift A Frames for closer range. Both shot to the same zero point at 250 yards and I had a drop chart for each bullet. I was very confident in the rifle. The first morning of the hunt my guide asked me what I was shooting and I told him 7mm. He wasn't too fond of my answer saying the only elk lost on the ranch had been with 7 mm. I assured him I was not shooting a regular 7mm that my STW was shooting 180 Bergers over 3100 FPS. Four days later just after legal shooting hours I had my shot at a 5x5 bull at 421 yards with the 175 Swift. I was prone on a bipod with a rear bag. I couldn't see the crease behind the shoulder and honestly did not think it mattered. I took a shoulder shot and the bull instantly collapsed. Seconds later it was back on its feet and my rifle was hopelessly jammed. After 5 hours of looking with 3 people we never found a drop of blood and never found the elk. The guides did not find the elk in the following weeks. I hit the shoulder and the bullet failed to penetrate into the vitals. I have now switched to a 338 La pua. I strongly feel that I would not have lost that elk if I had been shooting the Lapua. While many others choose lesser cartridges for elk my real world experience has convinced me that I need the margin of error afforded by the 338.

I've seen this happen and it's happened to me. There is a lot of body in and around the shoulder. The wrong bullet or a poorly placed shot will lose an animal. I shot an elk a few years ago with a 300rum, 650 on the run (not recommend, but I had a good rest and confidence ) I hit in front of the shoulder and it went through the front if the chest area and through to the opposite side, breaking a lot of bones. Eventually the animal died. But if it was my 7mm, I wouldn't have gotten the penetration.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

In my opinion, the 338 win represents the 338 family like a 7mm-08 represents the 7mm family. They are very useful to a distance but fall off quickly and limit the bullet weights best suited for the caliber. The result is a bullet with less sectional density which is not desirable to me, especially for elk.

Jeff

A 338win's not quite that bad, but an interesting way to put it. I've got a #1 in 338 win that I bought years ago. I bought it after seeing a few deer run on 7's and thirty's. A big hole through a critter is a sure way to drop him.
The trajectory difference messed with me though; a 225 at 2900 fps has nearly 300 inches drop to 1,000 yards with a 200 yard zero. That's over 70 inches more than my 7stw with a full throttle 140ab (or my 300rum with the 225) and better than 30 inches more drop than my mid range 300 win load with a 165.

 

[Broz]

Lefty, I appreciate you open minded approach. But I sure wish I could get with you to burn some powder and shoot my 300 win with a 215 Hybrid @ 3035 fps. I have read your posts for long enough to have somewhat of a feel for the way you like to hunt. Now if I could just get you to try a 215 in your 300 win instead of that 165.

My point is for my elk hunting needs. A 215 or 230 from a 30 cal is better suited than a 225 or 250 from a small cased 338. I know what the 338 win is capable of and it is a great caliber inside that zone. I still have a 340 Wby in the safe. It is happiest with 250's and has limits, limits my 300 win will exceed in some areas. But if you want to use a .338 win to represent the family of .338's then you should use a 7mm-08 to represent the 7mm's and a .308 to represent the 30 cal's. That said there has been some very interesting reports from the .308 boys that are now loading 215's in them. But!, loading a 300 gr in a .338 win does not yield the same results. My way of thinking tends to be more like representing the 7's with a 7mm-300, STW or RUM, 30 cal with a 300 win, 300 RUM, or 30-378 and the 338's with a 338EDGE, Lapua or Lapua AI. All loading top weight high BC bullets.

I just don't like it when I see any caliber represented with a bullet weight that the next caliber smaller will shoot. Like a 140 in a 7, a 165 in a 30 or a 225 in a 338.

Just my opinion.

Jeff

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

To Broz,
I have good reasons for the bullets I use and not all of them are conducive to the best LR uses, but they are what they are. As you know an average deer isn't nearly as hard to put a bullet through as the average elk so we are working to slightly different goals. That said, I am moving in the heavier, sleeker bullet direction as I shoot up my bullet supply and develop new loads as much for wind bucking as for terminal performance.
My current 300win has shown a certain angst toward boat tail bullets, but has shot a few well enough that I've loaded them. I currently use the 165 because A I have 800 of them (between rem and hdy), and B current lots of 220 sierra hpbt's and 7828 do not co-exist as well in the rifle as older lots have. It may be barrel age or components, but I've gotten a few bad groups that weren't operator error, so the load went the way of the Dodo. I will likely eventually work up another heavy bullet load in the rifle, but it may need another barrel before I go that way. The 215 sounds like one of the better options for the win from what you've said. Will it work with a 3.36" mag.?
As to my 7stw, she currently wears a 10" twist barrel so anything over 160 grains or so is a definite no; that said it does like the 150 ablr. I didn't use it this year though ( I used the 140ab) as I hadn't proven the rifle to my satisfaction in all weather conditions with the 150.
I won't shoot a couple of groups and hunt. I want a couple of boxes of bullets through a rifle before I trust the load as I've seen "good" loads go to pot when conditions change, no matter the powder I am burning. I'm finally comfortable enough with the 300rum to use heavy's in her the next time I field the rifle.