you certainly have to adjust your seating depth with these two bullets with very different ogive lengths....pending Mag length.
Which bullet is easier to shoot for accuracy, Berger 156 EOL or Nosler 150 ABLR in 6.5mm / .264?
- Thread starter cdherman
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I've been reloading since 1970. 30-06, .270win, 243win, 6.5CM. I burned a lot of powder trying to find a really accurate load with Accubond Long Range (ABLR) bullets. Stopped trying. The plain old Accubonds cooperate easily in all 4 calibers and perform great on Deer and pigs.
Bryan M
Member
Try running the nosler ablr further off the lands. In my opinion, lands is difficult to find and not ideal for hunting. I use the hornady case guage and push the bullet into the lands until it sticks, then I use a cleaning rod from the muzzle and tap the bullet as I gently pull the case guage from the chamber. Do this three times to get the "jam" point. I measure both OAL and BTO (base to ogive) and have found it to be quite consistent each time. I use the average unless one measurement is way off; then I take an additional 4th measurement and discard the other. I then start "hunting" bullets like the nosler ab or ablr, hornady cx or barnes coppers at 0.075 off of jam. Jam, on average would be 0.020 to 0.025 into the lands as jam and just touching the lands is different. It's very difficult to find just touching so I go off of a light jam using the guage.
I then use this oal and increase powder charges in 0.5 to 1 gr increments depending if its a norma size (85 to 90 grain) or a 308 size case (40 to 45 grain) to find pressure signs and velocity. I want to know what that case and powder combination can handle before trying to search for accuracy. I only shoot 1 or 2 shots per charge. After finding pressure signs and or excess velocity over standard loads which would suggest I am way over 65k psi, I reduce the load to a charge I feel is reliable and safe before I shoot any groups. A hornady case might show pressure at 65k psi and a Lapua or ADG might not show pressure until 75k psi so cases matter regarding finding pressure signs also. Then I do big jumps of 0.025 to check what the bullet might like: 0.075, 0.100 and 0.125 off lands before i fine tune with seating depth and small powder Changes of 0.2 grains. Shooting 3 and 5 shot groups when you are too light or too hot of a load wastes time and components.
Before i do any of the load development, I look at mag length vs max oal and make sure I have 0.030 to 0.050 minimum clearance for consistent feeding. This distance always dictates the max oal over the lands as reliability is key over bench rest accuracy. Their are many advantages to seating hunting bullets 0.075 to 0.125 off jam and few negatives. It is true thst you will see great accuracy at the just touching the lands but it comes with many nuances and risks. Base to olive of a bullet variation is way more critical at the lands vs a 0.100 jump. Carbon rings can't cause a bullet to stick when you jump bullets, pressures and velocity are more consistent as the throat wears so you aren't chasing the lands.
I used to seat some hunting bullets at or right near the lands but I quit doing this for many of the reasons I mentioned. Also a max load at 0.100 off jam can be over pressure when the same charge is used with the bullet into the lands. You can see this with an increase of velocity as the bullet gets closer and then into the lands. More velocity equals more pressure when using the same powder charge.
As far as powder goes for a 6.5-284, I know that magpro, h1000, n565 and retumbo all work well with 140 bergers and 147 eldm so I know they will be good with a 156 gr berger. H4831sc, r22 and n560 work well with 120 to 130 grain bullets in the 6.5-284. My 6.5-284 is built on a LA so mag length is not an issue regarding seating depth limitations. I like loads where the powder charge is about 98 to 102 percent fill at a safe pressure and accurate load. Compressed loads can and will cause erratic seating depths which will affect accuracy and the seating stem can damage the bullets with compressed loads.
This post ended up being long but this method works well for me and maybe some of you will find it useful. I also do most of my load development at the range with an arbor press and compact rcbs powder scales/charger so I can push loads without running back and forth to home or having to pull bullets that would be too hot to shoot.
I then use this oal and increase powder charges in 0.5 to 1 gr increments depending if its a norma size (85 to 90 grain) or a 308 size case (40 to 45 grain) to find pressure signs and velocity. I want to know what that case and powder combination can handle before trying to search for accuracy. I only shoot 1 or 2 shots per charge. After finding pressure signs and or excess velocity over standard loads which would suggest I am way over 65k psi, I reduce the load to a charge I feel is reliable and safe before I shoot any groups. A hornady case might show pressure at 65k psi and a Lapua or ADG might not show pressure until 75k psi so cases matter regarding finding pressure signs also. Then I do big jumps of 0.025 to check what the bullet might like: 0.075, 0.100 and 0.125 off lands before i fine tune with seating depth and small powder Changes of 0.2 grains. Shooting 3 and 5 shot groups when you are too light or too hot of a load wastes time and components.
Before i do any of the load development, I look at mag length vs max oal and make sure I have 0.030 to 0.050 minimum clearance for consistent feeding. This distance always dictates the max oal over the lands as reliability is key over bench rest accuracy. Their are many advantages to seating hunting bullets 0.075 to 0.125 off jam and few negatives. It is true thst you will see great accuracy at the just touching the lands but it comes with many nuances and risks. Base to olive of a bullet variation is way more critical at the lands vs a 0.100 jump. Carbon rings can't cause a bullet to stick when you jump bullets, pressures and velocity are more consistent as the throat wears so you aren't chasing the lands.
I used to seat some hunting bullets at or right near the lands but I quit doing this for many of the reasons I mentioned. Also a max load at 0.100 off jam can be over pressure when the same charge is used with the bullet into the lands. You can see this with an increase of velocity as the bullet gets closer and then into the lands. More velocity equals more pressure when using the same powder charge.
As far as powder goes for a 6.5-284, I know that magpro, h1000, n565 and retumbo all work well with 140 bergers and 147 eldm so I know they will be good with a 156 gr berger. H4831sc, r22 and n560 work well with 120 to 130 grain bullets in the 6.5-284. My 6.5-284 is built on a LA so mag length is not an issue regarding seating depth limitations. I like loads where the powder charge is about 98 to 102 percent fill at a safe pressure and accurate load. Compressed loads can and will cause erratic seating depths which will affect accuracy and the seating stem can damage the bullets with compressed loads.
This post ended up being long but this method works well for me and maybe some of you will find it useful. I also do most of my load development at the range with an arbor press and compact rcbs powder scales/charger so I can push loads without running back and forth to home or having to pull bullets that would be too hot to shoot.
Okanogan
Well-Known Member
I've had far better luck with the Bergers than Nosler AB in any rifle I have tried them in.
Your OP mentioned a list of powders you have and that your SDs with RL26 were higher than you liked. I didn't see you mention what primers you're running. F210Ms brought my SDs down with both my 6.5 SAUM and 7 PRC using RL26. CCI250s were a little worse while F215Ms tended to give me larger SD/ES. If you've got access to a selection of primers it might help in selecting your best load for your rifle regardless of which powder you choose.
Your OP mentioned a list of powders you have and that your SDs with RL26 were higher than you liked. I didn't see you mention what primers you're running. F210Ms brought my SDs down with both my 6.5 SAUM and 7 PRC using RL26. CCI250s were a little worse while F215Ms tended to give me larger SD/ES. If you've got access to a selection of primers it might help in selecting your best load for your rifle regardless of which powder you choose.
cdherman
Well-Known Member
I have F215M primers, but I *think* I was using standard primers for my 6.5x284. The loads are in the standard primer range (under 90g of powder, from what I've read).
I have CCI, Rem and some old Win standard LR primers. When it gets down to primer choice, I tend to get skeptical. I tend to use what I have lots of. I have most of a brick of Rem 9 1/2. Part of a brick of CCI 200. I was trying the Rem 9 1/2 since I have more of them. Hmmmm
Might revert to using my CCI 200 as a point of reference coupled with H1000.
Thanks again for all the input. Deer season in KS is weeks away, and I have about one more range session. Not optimal, but it is what it is......
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
As for longevity of the barrel and this depends on what you consider as being accurate I personally think you will get over 800 to 1000 rounds out of you rifle. I ran mine with hybrid 100v hodgens powder. But I think this is one of the coolest burning powders out there. I got between 4000 to 4300 rounds out of mine that was consistent at .5 to .6 MOA. I shot this rifle out to 1200 yards on a consistent basis. Also for some reason or another it showed pressure earlier than most 6.5x284's. Only thing that would push my rifle up to 2950 was RL26 and this was with a 140 Berger. All the slower powders still managed to hit pressure around 2930. 24 inch barrel. I ran it at 2880ish or 2870. Only down fall with the 100V is I had to back off the load during summer months. With my normal hunting load it would hit pressure anything above 70 to 80 degrees . Anything down to about 30 degrees seem ok but you could see a little drop in impact due to velocity as the temp changed getting cooler. I used my app to correct for that. But the 6.5x284 is a great little cartridge. I have the barrel off my action now and was thinking of doing a 280ai or I think with a bolt face change can do a 7mag. I think the 280ai would be a little slow running a 175grain bullet but that said the 168's would work fine and they have killed tons of elk at distance.
cdherman
Well-Known Member
I shot today. The H1000 seems to be a great recommendation. I went a bit higher than various book numbers I found at Hodgdon (nothing for 156, but some loads for 150 and 153). No pressure signs, and there might be a higher node, but I got a very nice group at 2926 fps. 4 shots in 0.4", essentially touching, and the ES was only 6 (of course 4 shots does not really tell ES or group size, but the loads 0.5 grain on each side were also quite acceptable.) Pretty much the whole series was under an inch -- I generally figure that the shooter (me) introduces at least 0.25" variation. I have a bad tremor and no amount of lead and support erases it entirely. And I was shooting in a gusting wind at 34 deg F.
In particular, the ES numbers in the 4 shot groups were MUCH better than I was getting with Stabal HD or RL-26.
Thanks for the recs. I have about 400 pieces of the 156 Berger. I should be set for a while. Might play with seating depth, though first order is to shoot that same load again, over 10 rounds or so to verify it wasn't just luck!
In particular, the ES numbers in the 4 shot groups were MUCH better than I was getting with Stabal HD or RL-26.
Thanks for the recs. I have about 400 pieces of the 156 Berger. I should be set for a while. Might play with seating depth, though first order is to shoot that same load again, over 10 rounds or so to verify it wasn't just luck!
Bryan M
Member
H1000 and n565 are typically "better" than staball hd or r26 for stability and consistency. And if you can find retumbo it might be the best with the 156. Good shooting.
