Which Berger is Better for Elk (7mm)

[Allen Kitts]

I have taken lots of animals with the 180 grain Hybrid from my 7LRM at 3010 FPS. Antelope, Deer and Elk in Eastern Montana, Gemsbok, Warthogs, Impala, Blesbok & Bushbuck in South Africa. They work very well. If you are looking for the best all around bullet for 600 yards and less I think there are better candidates than the Berger's, JMO I have not shot the VLD's in the 7mm but have used them in my 6.5 x 284 and one of my 6.5 PRC's and they worked very well also. The largest animal taken being a mature KUDU bull in South Africa at 412 yards. I don't take iffy shots so I cannot speak to the effectiveness if you take a bad shot. I wait for the right shot or I don't take one regardless of the bullet I am using. Good Luck

 

[WapitiBob]

the 195's

 

[lancetkenyon]

The jacket is the same.

Nope. Target jackets are slightly thicker.

I shoot the 180 Hyb in my 7RM @ 2996fps. We have taken numerous elk from 60ish to 882 with them. Only 2 have not exited. A cow hard quartering on at 140 yards (never found bullet), and the bull at 882 (broadside just under offside skin).
Nothing went further than 40 yards (one bull at 661). Most under 20 or dropped.

 

[Buttermilk]

A mid rib cage shot on a deer is far different than a "raking" shot on an elk! Plus that "raking" shot may include some large bone structures! memtb

No disagreement from me. I was just relaying my experience with Berger's. I've only had one "blowup" at short range on a small buck at 41 paces. Berger 168 VLDH @ 2650 fps MV (15" T/C Encore pistol). Buck dropped at the shot. Bullet came apart but trashed the insides of that buck.

I agree wholeheartedly that elk would be a different animal altogether. Pun intended. Would I use a Berger on an elk? Yes but I'd be picky on my shots.

 

[Hardshot]

What does a hunter do when an animal needs to be dropped on the spot at "close" distance with these bullets?
I've read so many negative comments about "blowing up on the shoulder" it seems like that prime target is risky at best.
heaven forbid a raking shot is all that's possible.

Hopefully you're a good enough shot to shoot them in the neck or head . Dilemma solved

 

[Petey308]

Nope. Target jackets are slightly thicker.

I shoot the 180 Hyb in my 7RM @ 2996fps. We have taken numerous elk from 60ish to 882 with them. Only 2 have not exited. A cow hard quartering on at 140 yards (never found bullet), and the bull at 882 (broadside just under offside skin).
Nothing went further than 40 yards (one bull at 661). Most under 20 or dropped.

Just to add as some explanation for so many exits with a bullet constructed like that…

A 180gr .284" bullet has a lot of mass. To quantify it, it has a sectional density of .319. That means even as it's expanding and shedding a lot of weight as it penetrates through steep quartering shots, wide bodied elk, etc it has the mass to retain momentum and also not get to the point of simply not enough material left to keep penetrating.

The differences in jacket thickness, ogive shape/contour, etc from things like VLD vs Hybrid and target jacket vs hunting jacket will matter more when things like amount of resistance upon impact are significantly higher or lower as well as the bullet's velocity upon impact. Longer distance shots will obviously be at a lower velocity upon impact which will reduce the rate of expansion. High resistance upon impact, due to something like a shoulder shot or just a large bodied animal or thick hide like a boar hog, will counter the lower impact velocity and still allow for a good amount of expansion. Conversely, lower resistance, due to smaller game, behind the shoulder shot, etc would reduce rate of expansion quite a bit more when the bullet also impacts at a lower velocity. Narrower wound channels and even penciling can occur.

This is why thinner jackets, and the hybrid ogive are better for lower impact velocity shots, especially for shot placements that would produce less resistance. Many people like to avoid shoulders, for example. The VLD hunter is a good choice for higher impact velocity impacts due to its slightly stronger structural characteristics (narrower ogive and slightly smaller cavity as a result).

Overall, in many instances, you may not even be able to tell a difference regarding terminal performance between the two bullets. Any differences seen though would be attributed to things like I mentioned though, or just the odd anomaly.

 

[BoomFlop]

These threads are pretty entertaining. The infamous bullet proof elk.

Berger 180 Hybrid is 1.527" long with a SD of .319. I wouldn't be concerned at all on any shot angle that I would take with any other "hunting bullet".

I've shot numerous animals with the 180 Hybrid, and other than the 30 cal 215 Hybrid, I would say it is probably one if not the best killing bullet made regardless of caliber or brand of bullet.

 

[Petey308]

These threads are pretty entertaining. The infamous bullet proof elk.

Berger 180 Hybrid is 1.527" long with a SD of .319. I wouldn't be concerned at all on any shot angle that I would take with any other "hunting bullet".

I've shot numerous animals with the 180 Hybrid, and other than the 30 cal 215 Hybrid, I would say it is probably one if not the best killing bullet made regardless of caliber or brand of bullet.

I agree. Many high mass Bergers will work quite emphatically and are quite forgiving to shot placement errors. There are factors that go into it and we can get picky on the details in these discussions, but in the end it's going to typically work out well if we get the bullet even close to the vitals.

I think it's always fun to discuss the details and science of it, but I also agree with your point that many times it's pretty simple and doesn't take as much thought and work as is portrayed in these discussions.

 

[RUFFIAN R - NY]

The one that you can shot the best with. Placement does count the MOST. Also REMEMBER all guns are created different. Are you a reloader or a Handloader

 

[Rick Richard]

A mid rib cage shot on a deer is far different than a "raking" shot on an elk! Plus that "raking" shot may include some large bone structures! memtb

We can play that "what if " game with any projectile listed. Just saying.

 

[FishHunt1970]

We can play that "what if " game with any projectile listed. Just saying.

I've shot the 168gr Berger CH, Berger 175 Elite Hunter and 195gr Berger EOL out of my 28 Nosler and I'm still searching for my next bullet. These are devastating on Deer, usually blow clean through. Elk have been a different story. I'm reading guys finding Bergers in offside shoulder skin, never for me. I'm doing autopsies on my elk trying to analyze the bullets performance. My best explanation would be like holding a 410 up to the elk and pull the trigger. I never find more than small fragments of my bullets, even with perfect behind the shoulder shots. It does kill them nicely but if you're looking for finding your bullet afterwards, these aren't for you. Lots of shock value. Very accurate. I've got 3 boxes of Nosler 175gr ABLR coming, we shall see, might stick with the 195 Bergers. Heard the 177 hammers are good, but haven't tried them.

 

[Petey308]

It does kill them nicely

That's the most important part for me .

 

[1st-MarDiv OldBreed]

the 195's

2nd the 195

 

[scdogman]

I've shot the 168gr Berger CH, Berger 175 Elite Hunter and 195gr Berger EOL out of my 28 Nosler and I'm still searching for my next bullet. These are devastating on Deer, usually blow clean through. Elk have been a different story. I'm reading guys finding Bergers in offside shoulder skin, never for me. I'm doing autopsies on my elk trying to analyze the bullets performance. My best explanation would be like holding a 410 up to the elk and pull the trigger. I never find more than small fragments of my bullets, even with perfect behind the shoulder shots. It does kill them nicely but if you're looking for finding your bullet afterwards, these aren't for you. Lots of shock value. Very accurate. I've got 3 boxes of Nosler 175gr ABLR coming, we shall see, might stick with the 195 Bergers. Heard the 177 hammers are good, but haven't tried them.

Not sure I understand your problem. The bullet performed exactly as berger stated they would. Did you not believe them? Were the vitals shredded? Did the elks travel far? Why is finding your bullet important?

Good luck finding your perfect bullet.