Where does .308 Winchester excel?

[Lenny Foffa]

I think the 308 is a military cartridge that was designed to fill a need. From what I have read it was very useful in semi automatic and fully automatic military weaponry. It was able to achieve velocities similar to the 3006 but with a shorter overall length that allowed it to be better used in full auto guns. Like the 3006 , the 308 found favor and usefulness among the target and hunting fraternity. I own one in a heavy barrel savage that I use for target and competitive shooting. It's a very nice balance of case capacity and bullet selection which makes it a very good choice for that application. All that having been said, I do not believe it was ever originally designed as a sporting cartridge, but as it turns out lots of hunters like short action light rifles and the 308 is an excellent deer and black bear cartridge. So to my mind like the 3006 , it has been embraced by the hunting and shooting fraternity, and is a good choice For all around hunting of North American medium sized game at medium range ! I think the owner of a short barreled Short action, light rifle chambered in 308 should be aware of the range he is attempting to shoot game at. I personally do not consider the 308 to be a long range hunting caliber. Many hunters here on the East Coast use the 308 especially woods hunting , where there is no likelihood of a shot beyond 200 yards. I guess one can say it is a good all-around medium game cartridge.Not my first choice ,but a respectable round non the less .

 

[jasent]

The only time I like 308 is when it's necked down to 6mm

 

[Calvin45]

The only time I like 308 is when it's necked down to 6mm

Hey I think I have one of those!

 

[Ckgworks]

being a jack of all trades (and master of none)

Every time I see or hear this, I can't help myself......How many are aware that this quote was originally longer?
"Jack of all trades, master of none, BUT FAR BETTER STILL THAN A MASTER OF ONE."
It was shortened to disparage those that didn't have one profession. Kinda funny because it pretty much sums up the .308 for me. It's pretty much a non-exciting getter done.

 

[Calvin45]

Every time I see or hear this, I can't help myself......How many are aware that this quote was originally longer?
"Jack of all trades, master of none, BUT FAR BETTER STILL THAN A MASTER OF ONE."
It was shortened to disparage those that didn't have one profession. Kinda funny because it pretty much sums up the .308 for me. It's pretty much a non-exciting getter done.

Hahaha I didn't know that about the original quote.

Also reminds me of a musician from back in the day, Stompin Tom Connor, singing

"I'm a jack of many trades and a master of them all!"

 

[RidgeTop]

I will always have a .308.

Remington 742 LH, .308Win

 

[Hoss50]

It is a jack of all trades master of none gun.
Ammo selection and availability are the strongest areas. It can shoot alot of different bullet weights which makes it versatile, but it doesn't "shine" anywhere IMO.

 

[CBH Australia]

I'm curious as to why people keep limiting the 308 Win to 300-400 yards.
With a 180 grain bullet at 2600fps at the muzzle, it still delivers over 1000 ft/lbs of energy at 650 yards, and over 1100 ft/lbs at 600 yards.

That sounds like you are stepping into Creedmoor territory there partner.

Don't you know the 6.5cm excels over the geriatric .30's well some fella said on a forum I promptly told him I'm 50 and won't convert or grow a man bun He's probably sipping Latte now.

I think the 6.5CM charts show barely less wind drift advantage over the .308 when the CM round has a VLD projectile.

.308 excels in satisfying old farts like me.

 

[nralifer]

Seems to me this thread, like all before it... is off topic.

The question was, Where does the 308win excel?

ex·cel
/ikˈsel/
verb

1. be exceptionally good at or proficient in an activity or subject.

The question wasn't any of the following:
Is the 308win fun?
Is the 308win nostalgic?
Can the 308win kill anything at all?
Can 308win's hit targets ever?
Does the 308win have any place in the world?
Does anyone need to justify owning and using a 308win?

There is only one area where a 308win actually excels in todays world, and that is due to how bad it is at virtually everything else. The fact that it can produce enough recoil to properly proof a firing position, coupled with its inferior exterior ballistic performance and long barrel life, makes it a fantastic training round. However, most people will not purchase a dedicated rifle exclusively for rifle handling training.

There is no arguing the 308win's place in history. Just as there is no arguing its place in todays discipline. Outside of the specific training requirements laid out in the preceding paragraph, other more modern cartridges can do better at virtually every application.

Terminal performance, accuracy/precision, recoil, exterior ballistic performance, barrel life, etc. Other cartridges can best the 308win in virtually every category, individually and collectively, and be better at their respective jobs. There is only one configuration which can bring a 308win into the modern times... and it's Palma. Long barrels, (like 30-34") with 155gr slippery bullets. Modern components provides the ability for that combination to push velocities high enough with a bullet that has just enough BC to make things favorable.

About 7-8 years ago... a week didn't go by where I didn't talk to someone extremely disappointed in their 308 after trying to use it in a situation where a different cartridge would clearly outclass it. That call is very rare these days, thanks to people waking up to the facts of ballistic reality. Still though, every so often... the phone rings and I'm met with all manner of regret as someone is now $5,000-$6,000 deep in a custom 308... and almost no one in the world wants it. Certainly not the owner.

The bad advice of others, brings more people under my mentorship than any of my own efforts.

I still have a 308win, for nostalgia and training sake. When I have a guy show up for training with a .22-250 or .204 ruger, and I need them shooting something where they can actually see the fruits of their labor behind the rifle, it often comes out. That's what the 308win excels at in todays world... and it's almost the only thing. With my reputation riding on people being successful with what I recommend now, I could not, and would not EVER, in good conscience recommend a 308win for virtually anything other than the very specific aforementioned task of a dedicated training rifle.

Conversely, if you're sitting there just itching to get a 308win... why would you let anyone stop you? I look back on my time with the 308win fondly. No other cartridge taught me as many things. Granted it was long ago, but I worked out the bulk of my knowledge in this discipline on that cartridge over roughly a 5 year period.

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I beg to differ with you on several points. Factory ammo with lead core bullets of mediocre BCs and velocity hamper the ballistic performance of the 308 greatly. Terminal performance is more a function of the bullet than the rifle used to launch it. The availability of new high energy powders, high quality brass, and high BC copper bullets improve the performance of the 308 very significantly. The great thing about the 308 is that it performs so well with a 20" barrel. My pet load is the 150 gr Badlands BD2, about 49 gr of Leverevolution and WLRM primer which launches a 150 gr BD2 bullet with a 0.515G1 BC at 2950 fps from a compact 20" barreled gun that shoots 1/2 MOA. Within 600-700 yds that gun is a 1 shot dead-right-there rifle that is easy to lug through thick brush, woods or long treks on foot in open country. With a 24" barrel that load yelds 3050 fps, but portability suffers because of the longer barrel. Had occasion to shoot a 700 lb Alaskan Coastal Black Bear with that rifle. Never really had a clean shot at it as it we were stalking it in an old snow slide. The Bear saw us at about 150 yds in brush and started to walk away. I shot it at about 175 yds quartering away at about 30 deg as he passed a hole in the grass about 12" wide. The bullet entered the base of the right lung, crossed the midline into the left lung, hitting the pulmonary artery, and exited the right upper chest at the base of the neck, penetrating a full 32 inches. He collapsed after one step with blood coming out his nose. My guide was very astonished at the effect. That load in that rifle is deadly. When hunting I don't notice the recoil and usually can see the bullet impact. Because one carries the gun much more than one shoots it, compactness and portability are at a premium. With carbon wrapped barrels and carbon fiber stocks, a 20" 308 becomes a pleasure to carry. Ballistic efficiency is next to none. That load in that rifle yields 61 ft-lbs/ grain of powder of bullet energy, something hardly any other cartridge can match save perhaps a 338 Federal, which is simply a necked up 308. Now if you want to shoot Moose at 900+ yds go to a 338 Norma or Lapua with a 275 gr BD2, or use your hunting skills to get within 400 yds with your 308 and that load. For me at least the thrill of the hunt is the stalk and a clean humane 1shot kill. The 308 with that load provides the compactness, portability, power, accuracy, and ease of shooting that is hard to obtain otherwise. I guess, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, the efficiency of the 308 is where it excels when high grade modern components and high energy powders are used. You are right when you say old does not mean obsolete.

 

[nralifer]

The 308 excells everywhere.

Here are the factory specs showing the comparison with the new wonder child. If your a handloader, the 308 really shines with CFE-223. I have consistently achievedsub moa loads @ ~2810 fps in 3 different 308 wins with 22 inch bbls.
I would take a 308 win over 6.5 creed for hunting every day.

What charge of CFE223 do you use? Ever try Leverevolution? It is slightly slower.

 

[nralifer]

Here's my Bear. DRT with 308 Win load described in prior post.

 

[C-130 Dude]

The 308 was never intended to excel at anything. It is a conglomerate of compromises designed to reliably kill or wound more bad guys per $. Acceptable recoil, satisfactory feed reliability across multiple platforms, component economy (raw brass and powder needed), weight and portability, etc. There are better cartridges for everything the 308 does including the original intent.

Well said!

 

[C-130 Dude]

Another thing it excels at: not requiring special bullets at normal hunting ranges.

Everyone is so obsessed with high velocity…and ordinary bullets can fail at high velocity. The boring old .308 with 180 grain soft points like the ubiquitous Winchester super x power point will penetrate like nobody's business, no bonded or monometal needed. And for the majority of hunting ranges it shoots "flat enough".

Well said!

 

[C-130 Dude]

My 30 Cal bolt gun is a 308. Its on its second barrel. The first one (factory) lasted 8000 rounds before it would no longer put 5 shots into a sub moa group. I'm expecting my current (McGowan) barrel to last at least that long if not longer. Add that I live east of the Mississippi river. If something is far enough away that a 308 isn't enough, its to far away for me to even see.

Wow, 8k on the barrel. I thought my 4500+ was good. Nice!