Where does .308 Winchester excel?
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Tex_Hunter
Well-Known Member
Because there are cartridges in the same class that have more energy and less drop/drift at that range (and less recoil).I'm curious as to why people keep limiting the 308 Win to 300-400 yards.
With a 180 grain bullet at 2600fps at the muzzle, it still delivers over 1000 ft/lbs of energy at 650 yards, and over 1100 ft/lbs at 600 yards.
143gr ELD-x out of my Creedmoor has 1200ft lbs at 650yds and has dropped almost 24" less. You'll have similar if not slightly better results at that distance with a 7-08 if you're one of those people that hates the Creedmoor for some reason.
All those accolades and you find it boring? Maybe not so much.I got rid of mine too. It's boring.
That being said it excels at having near infinite barrel life, being a jack of all trades (and master of none) for hunting, having ammo available wherever ammo is found (unless in a shortage), and most of all being easy as all heck to tune an accurate load for. It's the opposite of finicky. In my experience you'd have to put some effort in to find a load most .308 rifles WOULDNT shoot well, or at least well enough, compared to most any other cartridge.
It's efficient in how much powder is burned for how much performance you get. It does well with shorter barrels.
So it's boring.
Yup, although when you run the 168 Amax out of a 308 at 2802 FPS it's pretty much the same as you mentioned on energy but maybe not drop. This load has dropped many bucks in their tracks, longest being 691 yards by my father at 76 years old. Pop is now 83.
700 .308
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Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
That means you're pushing it over 2800 fps. You must have a pretty long barrel and stepping on it pretty hard.
Ammo availability (currently — subject to change) and that's about it.
In all my 59 years of hunting, the 308 has put more meat in my freezer than all other calibers I have used combined. With the possible exception of the 12ga. In every ammo shortage I have seen over the years, there are 3 cartridges that seemed to be available every time I needed them. The 22lr, 308, and 12ga. I have owned more different 308 guns than all others combined. Its an easy going, friendly, reliable, and predictable shooting caliber. Did I mention it is available almost any place you look? Oh yeah, rarely any surprises. Not a bad thing, me thinks. For some time now, folks are hard up for powder for other hot rod calibers. Not the 308. It takes more various powders (bullets & cases too) than any other caliber I can think of at the moment. Not to mention the other required components (#@%!...primer availability
). With all the gun and ammo politics going on, it makes all the sense in the world to have a "safe bet" on hand. Never had problems with not having enough "gun" to do the job at hand for my hunting purposes. All this said, it does have some limitations as lots of folks have stated. It does a decent job at target shooting. Sometimes excellent. It was never intended to be widely used as a 1000+ yard gun. It can, but others are more useful in this endeavor. 400-600 max more commonly. Personally, I have never had a hunting shot more than 450 (I think). There are different calibers that are more distance capable. But none of those are as easy to fund, build, load test, or use. IMHO. Yeah, you should have a 308 in your possession (shtf insurance?) . But what are you looking for, actually? Why are you looking at all? Is this a need or a want? Only you can answer this. After all, its your $$$. Your choice.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
No no I meant what I said. It's boring. It's not interesting at all. But that's not the same as bad. It's about the most practical and versatile lightweight rifle cartridge on earth. It's predictable and consistent and doesn't really have any surprises in using it.
I got rid of mine in pursuit of more interesting cartridges. My main battery is now a new to me .257 wby, a .300 win mag, and a .358 Norma mag. They're all more interesting to me and more satisfying to work with. And I've never killed anything or made a shot with any of them that I couldn't have made with a .308.
rustyshackleford
Well-Known Member
Versatility. 125 gr - 210's for supers and up to 220-240's for subs if you are into that. Versatility is basically unmatched in the other bores due to projectile selection. All the new bullet designs have the 308 nipping at the heels of the new wonder cartridges anyhow. In my case I have a 20" 308 that pushes 169 SMK's at 2675 ft/sec and has a 1/9 twist so I can shoot subs suppressed too. So I can ring steel to 1200 on a good day, load 125's over a reduced charge of H4895 for the kids, or 200 SMK's over trailboss for fun and still push the steel around. Not a bad little round some would saySeems to me this thread, like all before it... is off topic.
The question was, Where does the 308win excel?
ex·cel
/ikˈsel/
verb
- be exceptionally good at or proficient in an activity or subject.
The question wasn't any of the following:
Is the 308win fun?
Is the 308win nostalgic?
Can the 308win kill anything at all?
Can 308win's hit targets ever?
Does the 308win have any place in the world?
Does anyone need to justify owning and using a 308win?
There is only one area where a 308win actually excels in todays world, and that is due to how bad it is at virtually everything else. The fact that it can produce enough recoil to properly proof a firing position, coupled with its inferior exterior ballistic performance and long barrel life, makes it a fantastic training round. However, most people will not purchase a dedicated rifle exclusively for rifle handling training.
There is no arguing the 308win's place in history. Just as there is no arguing its place in todays discipline. Outside of the specific training requirements laid out in the preceding paragraph, other more modern cartridges can do better at virtually every application.
Terminal performance, accuracy/precision, recoil, exterior ballistic performance, barrel life, etc. Other cartridges can best the 308win in virtually every category, individually and collectively, and be better at their respective jobs. There is only one configuration which can bring a 308win into the modern times... and it's Palma. Long barrels, (like 30-34") with 155gr slippery bullets. Modern components provides the ability for that combination to push velocities high enough with a bullet that has just enough BC to make things favorable.
About 7-8 years ago... a week didn't go by where I didn't talk to someone extremely disappointed in their 308 after trying to use it in a situation where a different cartridge would clearly outclass it. That call is very rare these days, thanks to people waking up to the facts of ballistic reality. Still though, every so often... the phone rings and I'm met with all manner of regret as someone is now $5,000-$6,000 deep in a custom 308... and almost no one in the world wants it. Certainly not the owner.
The bad advice of others, brings more people under my mentorship than any of my own efforts.
I still have a 308win, for nostalgia and training sake. When I have a guy show up for training with a .22-250 or .204 ruger, and I need them shooting something where they can actually see the fruits of their labor behind the rifle, it often comes out. That's what the 308win excels at in todays world... and it's almost the only thing. With my reputation riding on people being successful with what I recommend now, I could not, and would not EVER, in good conscience recommend a 308win for virtually anything other than the very specific aforementioned task of a dedicated training rifle.
Conversely, if you're sitting there just itching to get a 308win... why would you let anyone stop you? I look back on my time with the 308win fondly. No other cartridge taught me as many things. Granted it was long ago, but I worked out the bulk of my knowledge in this discipline on that cartridge over roughly a 5 year period.
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308 is a good all around cartridge, its accurate, easy to load, really good bullet selection. Its like everything else these days, got to be faster and something fancy but in reality a good 30/06 rifle will do anything these others are trying to do, ok not as fast, but with these top of the line scopes today it is more than capable. Yes ive got a few barn burners, i particularly like the 6.5 / 06 what does a 6.5 creedmore got on it nothing. All thats happening is we are redeveloping cartridges that in one form or another have been around for ever. Today the bullets are top of the line, really consistent powder and scopes 40 yrs ago were non existent. So i guess new cartridges are fun but are they really needed.
SSG Graybush
Well-Known Member
So a 308 with a 175 gr about 2700ish fps. With a 185 gr about 2650ish. Dismal performance. Even the 185 juggernaut only has a .56 g1 bc.
In 30 cal, you need a 300 wm at least to push a 208+ gr / .6+ g1 bc bullet to be efficient at LR. If not the bullet is dumping energy and drifting past 600 yards.
mcdil
Well-Known Member
Wait, that's a 308 Win on steroids and HGH, lol. One of my favorites I've never owned, as well as the 8mm Rem Mag.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Almost like the old school 7x57 was a pretty tough to beat set up haha
The 6.5 creed and 7-08 rem are fine cartridges, very practical and capable. They're also nothing new ballistically, just modern ballistic analogues of the 6.5x55 Swede and 7x57 mauser from over a century ago now. But they're not European so we trust them haha!
