When to give up on a barrel?

[SSG Graybush]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Replace the scope for one. I've received 3 bad scopes in my time. And saw this pretty much with a CA rifle with a brand new Razor HD gen II, shoot a few good(.5ish) and a crazy flyer or 2 to about 3 moa, he was going out west for a guided hunt and was freaking out. Dude was about to send the rifle in and I (a RSO there) said dont without swapping out the scope with a known good one. He threw on his Buddy's Leopold and bam a .75 moa group with factory eldx. I like Vortex so dont take this post as a slam on them its not. So if your getting some decent grouping and some crazy flyers that you know your not pulling. Always consider the scope is suspect.
Ive got bad cheap barrels before and they never came close to shooting a .5 moa 3 shot group. Its not the barrel.
Shoot off good rests / bags, make sure your parralax is adjusted, and ensure your getting a good consistent cheek to stock weld.
I dont even know what a bolt click is? When is it clicking? On opening after shooting? And a smaller chamber is what? Tighter headspace and or less freebore I guess, which are both good things.

 

[SSG Graybush]

Kinda in the same position with a Christensen Ridgeline in 6.5CM I bought earlier this year. The only factory load (out of three that I've tried) I've found to meet their 1 MOA 3-shot guarantee is Hornady 140gr match, not a hunting bullet. The real problem is that the rifle produces case head ejector swipes and heavy bolt lift when shooting suppressed (my primary intended use for the rifle). Called them and the service tech said their gunsmiths would find it within their guaranteed performance parameters, and they don't recommend suppressor use (although their current advertising seems to). At this point, I'm trying to decide whether to send it back, or just not waste the time and have it re-barreled. The tight chamber doesn't seem to help accuracy, IMHO.

I have plenty of components to load for the rifle, but, again, don't know if I want to waste my time or components with this barrel. OP, I hope you get yours sorted out. Would like to know which way you end up going with it.

Getting ejector marks and hard bolt lift is from overpressure. That factory ammo must be borderline hot and only showing overpressure when suppressed. And probably worse in the heat of summer.

 

[spladi]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Talked with a buddy this morning. He is a 7mm mag nut I guess he qualifies for. He uses IMR 4831. Granted H 1000 is tops but not a cure all. Sometimes a big sidestep is what's needed. primarily with powder choice and not so much with good bullets.

 

[spladi]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

I see Nosler says that IMR 4350 works good in the 7mm STW which has about the same case capacity as your 28 Nos.

 

[greenejc]

Yes did seating test with berger 168 and 180s. Also with the 169 and 155 hh.
Have also tried fierce's dirt nap loaded ammo in 160gr accubond and 180 vld.
Plus 162 gr hornady eldx and federal 155 gr terminal assent.
My reloading friend is pretty much hooked on using h 1000. He says he can get any 28 nos to shoot to it's best potential with h1000 and he has done a lot of load work in other 28s and other calibers. I have suggested we use a different powder but he said it won't help?? I noticed in the hammer loads hardly anyone is using h1000. A lot are using rl 26 and n570 but I do not have those. I do however have retumbo, imr8133, n568, us 869, ramshot magnum and lrt. Maybe my rifle just doesn't like h1000?
He does use a lab radar and does ladder tests in .5 grain increments to find nodes.

Use a different powder. Use several different powders. Get a full length resizing die; possibly a small base die. Try different powder combinations. I get better consistency from different powders with different bullet weights sometimes in the came cartridge. You have to experiment with different combinations. For that barrel, also, stay with just three shot groups. That is a thin steel tube with carbon fiber stiffening. It'll heat up and change point of aim with too many shots.

 

[tooth doc]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

not being nasty here, but have you tried a different shooter? good shooting bench, sand bags, seat adjusted properly? what is the twist rate? if you decide to rebarrel, please do yourself a favor and try a benchmark, carbon wrap or. ss. good luck.

 

[Hunterjones]

With the first Fierce I bought I tried all the applicable "Extreme" and Extreme Type powders. H1000, Retumbo, IMR 7977. Before switching to RE33 I was ready to settle for 1.25 MOA. I was just done with that gun. First group using RE33 and 168 Classic Hunters was under 3/4". After .5 grain increments in powder charge the rifle shoots the 168 Classic Hunters and 160 Accubonds into ragged holes at 100.
Word of caution. Nosler brass necks are a couple thousandths thicker than ADG necks. Water capacity between the 2 brands was within less than 3 grains but ADG brass requires 3.5 more grains of RE33 to equal velocity in thick necked Nosler cases.
The second Fierce 28 I bought shot very well from the get go with RE33. Use caution, chambers are tight. I am about 50 FPS over max velocity Barnes data shows with 5 grains LESS powder shooting the 168 LRX…

 

[greenejc]

I see Nosler says that IMR 4350 works good in the 7mm STW which has about the same case capacity as your 28 Nos.

I get 0.6 inch groups at 100yds with IMR 4350 in both my 300 Win Mag and my 30-06. You might try it, IMR 4831, and IMR 7828, which is on a par with H1000. The Hodgden's website gives Retumbo, US 869, and IMR 7977 or 8133 as powders, also. All of these powders are good powders for pretty much any of the 'magnum' cartridges, along with pretty much all the long action cartridges. You might try some of them, too. Some rifles like different powders. You don't know what cannister powder was loaded for your factory loads. To duplicate it, you'll need to try different powders and find the closest powder to what was used at the factory.

 

[sendero72]

With the first Fierce I bought I tried all the applicable "Extreme" and Extreme Type powders. H1000, Retumbo, IMR 7977. Before switching to RE33 I was ready to settle for 1.25 MOA. I was just done with that gun. First group using RE33 and 168 Classic Hunters was under 3/4". After .5 grain increments in powder charge the rifle shoots the 168 Classic Hunters and 160 Accubonds into ragged holes at 100.
Word of caution. Nosler brass necks are a couple thousandths thicker than ADG necks. Water capacity between the 2 brands was within less than 3 grains but ADG brass requires 3.5 more grains of RE33 to equal velocity in thick necked Nosler cases.
The second Fierce 28 I bought shot very well from the get go with RE33. Use caution, chambers are tight. I am about 50 FPS over max velocity Barnes data shows with 5 grains LESS powder shooting the 168 LRX…

With the large case capacity of the 28, try using RL26. I use it in my 7 mag with a 28" Kreiger barrel/ 8 twist. MV of 2984. It will shoot under 1/10th at 100 yds. I had him throat it for heavy bullets like the 180's and even the 190's. Find a gunsmith that builds competition rifles and tell him that you want a competition hunting rifle. My gunsmith's main business is building rifles for PRS competition. Good luck.

 

[bikerbowhunter]

I get 0.6 inch groups at 100yds with IMR 4350 in both my 300 Win Mag and my 30-06. You might try it, IMR 4831, and IMR 7828, which is on a par with H1000. The Hodgden's website gives Retumbo, US 869, and IMR 7977 or 8133 as powders, also. All of these powders are good powders for pretty much any of the 'magnum' cartridges, along with pretty much all the long action cartridges. You might try some of them, too. Some rifles like different powders. You don't know what cannister powder was loaded for your factory loads. To duplicate it, you'll need to try different powders and find the closest powder to what was used at the factory.

Fierce will give you a reloading recipe they guarantee will give you the .5 moa 3 shot group

 

[Headzo]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Glass bed the action first just pilliar bedding like they do doesn't always provide a guaranteed that the action doesn't move. Ask any good gunsmith or read up on it.

 

[Les in Wyoming]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

I had a similar issue with my Begara. Everyone said these guns do not need to be bedded. Including my gunsmith. But I finallly bedded it. Bingo. One ragged hole accuracy at 100 yds. One other thing that is super critical is the seating depth. A couple thousandths will change it. You might check that also.

 

[D$tring]

You are on the precipice of a slippery slope. You start asking those questions and the answers and the direction they take you will surprise you. Here is my experience:

Had a fierce that did the same thing. 28 nosler. It shot the 160 AB factory ammo the best but inconsistent. I did some testing with the chrono and found as much as 110 fps difference in one box of factory nosler ammo. Nosler is too expensive for me to justify that. So I tried the factory Hornady 162 and it shot that just as good, group wise but with more consistency (less fliers) Only 40-50 fps variation per box. Right then and there is when I started my reloading journey in earnest and bought a 6.5 man-bun to really learn reloading with (my mentor had a 6.5CM for long range target work, so it was logical and a good reason to buy a new rifle) and then after I felt comfortable, I started loading for the 28. Found good loads with tight spreads 10-15 fps and got great groups, but the fierce (just like Christensen) liked the lighter bullets better. I felt the 28 should shoot the 180-195 min to be ideal but Mag and chamber length limited the horsepower. So I sold the rifle and bought a 6.5 PRC and also started buying parts to build custom rifles to shoot the bullets I want at the speeds I want, and match them with the accuracy and speed consistency of hand loads.

 

[D2wing]

The thing is they are saying it is a .5 moa rifle but it is not with any reloads or factory ammo that we have tried. What I want is what they supposedly guarantee, a .5 accuracy guarantee. If they say it shoots .5 with factory ammo then why shouldn't I be able to obtain that with hand loads?

Look, I just want 1 rifle in my arsenal that if I luck out and pull a tag in say unit 23 in Arizona late season and need a rifle that will shoot 700 or 890 yards it is able to do it. Is that a completely unrealistic thing to shoot for?? And no I don't care about f class anything.

Why not save your self time, money and headaches and shoot the specific factory ammo. I think you're chasing a dead horse with the powder you are using. You should have tried something a little slower already. Also I would call it good if you get 3 shots in .3 to .5moa in a hunting rifle. Target rifle. Different story.
IMHO you need to carefully measure the factory load and test alot of things to duplicate it or better it. And learn to do it yourself. I wouldn't rely on someone else's loads.