When to give up on a barrel?

[BPollard]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Is the barrel floating can you run a dollar bill down and after a shot try again does it touch the stock? also are you playing with the parallax in between shots because that's a No no.

 

[Frosty Hunter]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Try adjusting your actions screws. Sometimes that works. Maybe an EC tuner? Or even a limbsaver barrel tuner. Harmonics could just be a little off.

 

[RuninL8]

So, there are a few things you can look at having a gun smith check. First and foremost how tight is the chamber? Too tight? It can be reamed a thou or 2 longer, depending on headspace. Is the barrel clocked correctly on the reciever? (huge issues with harmonics if it's a carbon not clocked correctly) Is there chatter in your lands and groves where the reamer engaged the rifling? Is the chamber actually cut square? And what does the crown look like? Often overlooked however it has huge implications on precision.

 

[Rroehl108]

I could have missed it but I didn't notice anyone suggesting you check your consistency of neck tension. I recently had a .300 Norma that I put 300+ rounds through trying to get it to shoot 1/4 moa which I knew it was capable of. I never actually checked the mandrel I was using just assuming it was what I ordered. Checked it, it was out of spec and got the correct mandrel and everything tightened up right away.

 

[richhymas]

The thing is they are saying it is a .5 moa rifle but it is not with any reloads or factory ammo that we have tried. What I want is what they supposedly guarantee, a .5 accuracy guarantee. If they say it shoots .5 with factory ammo then why shouldn't I be able to obtain that with hand loads?

Look, I just want 1 rifle in my arsenal that if I luck out and pull a tag in say unit 23 in Arizona late season and need a rifle that will shoot 700 or 890 yards it is able to do it. Is that a completely unrealistic thing to shoot for?? And no I don't care about f class anything.

I recommend shooting the rifle at 500 yards and grouping it. I have several rifles that are 1 MOA rifles at 100 yards but will print 3" groups at 500 yards. I also have a benchrest gun that groups 1/4 MOA at 100 yards and shoots 6" groups at 500 yards. Punchline is that if you are wanting it to perform at 800 yards, see if you can find a bullet or load that performs at that distance. If you can get a 6" group at 800 yards you have what you need.

 

[naja302]

Your expectations are unrealistic for that rifle. Even though everyone on this site shoots guns that shoot .2 and .3" all day long .

5 shot 1/2 MOA groups in any hunting gun and very difficult to come by

 

[William W.]

Try and duplicate the factory load.
Bullet, weight, sesting depth, velocity.
See if that works.

Or....

Rebarrel or sell.

He said that he can't resize his brass smaller.

 

[KHump]

Try cleaning the heck out of the barrel with a good solvent, copper solvent, and brush it to get it whistling clean. May not do anything for you, but it's helped me significantly on a rifle I couldn't figure out...

 

[HookieHill]

Try retumbo and imr8133 before you give up. 180 bergers 5 thou's off the lands. ≈80 grains works in my 28, but you know the back off rule. Side note, I've done load development with three 28s and none of them liked h1000 oddly enough.

 

[bikerbowhunter]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

My story is almost the same as yours, but with a great end. I bought my Fierce 28 Nosler 2 years ago. Could not get it to shoot groups. tried all kinds of loads - cases, powders, bullets. Sent it back to Fierce, they did a deep cleaning, shot it and sent it back with the 3 shot group at .3875" group. I talked to them and they said they only guarantee that group using the components they used, including the OAL. Also, they explained to me that their guns are made with very close tolerances to guarantee an accurate first, cold bore shot, since they are made for hunting, not repeated target shooting.
Using their load, 168 Berger VLD's, H1000 powder, I shot the same 3 shot group. After 3 shots, the group spread out to 2-3". I went out to Fierce for their long range shooting course. They guaranteed they would have that rifle shooting a mile. Sure enough, that rifle shot every target out to a mile. The more rounds through it, the better it shoots. So I would say, 1) use their load exactly 2) never shoot more than 3 shot groups to see .5 MOA, 3) The more rounds shot the better the rifle shoots. I was also using a Thunderbeast suppressor.

 

[skipglo]

Before giving up. Did you do seating depth testing with any of the bullets you tried? Also, how did you select the powder charges you used for the reloads? If you haven't done extension load work, I wouldn't give up yet. If it can shoot factory Nosler ammo 1/2 MOA then it should shoot at least that well with good components after you do proper load development.

^^^^^^^^^ You would think so!

 

[tknuts103]

My vote is sell it and get a hells canyon. You will get your .5 groups but saving over half of the money.

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

Sell it and buy a hells canyon. You will save a crap ton of money and still get your .5 five shot groups.

 

[dougrosa]

Yes did seating test with berger 168 and 180s. Also with the 169 and 155 hh.
Have also tried fierce's dirt nap loaded ammo in 160gr accubond and 180 vld.
Plus 162 gr hornady eldx and federal 155 gr terminal assent.
My reloading friend is pretty much hooked on using h 1000. He says he can get any 28 nos to shoot to it's best potential with h1000 and he has done a lot of load work in other 28s and other calibers. I have suggested we use a different powder but he said it won't help?? I noticed in the hammer loads hardly anyone is using h1000. A lot are using rl 26 and n570 but I do not have those. I do however have retumbo, imr8133, n568, us 869, ramshot magnum and lrt. Maybe my rifle just doesn't like h1000?
He does use a lab radar and does ladder tests in .5 grain increments to find nodes.

I have a similar rifle 28 nosler fierce edge. It likes retumbo 175 hornady eldx. .080 from lands 3180 fps. Shoots less than .5 3 shot groups.

 

[V7750212K]

Ok, that sounds easy enough. All my components are at the reloaders place. I will check that out first chance I get.

NOTE: you PROBABLY won't be able to duplicate factory loads. Reason? Manufacturers use proprietary powder made exclusively for them. I encountered that little problem with a Weatherby I bought new.