When to give up on a barrel?

[Bob Wright]

I would have to assume fierce checked it out when they had it, but who knows. I also had my local smith check it over. I was going to have him bed it but he said the way it was he said that bedding most likely wouldn't do any good. Right now neck turning is above my pay grade so I will try a different powder and go in .4 of a grain jumps.

Just see if a bullet easily drops into a fired neck of your spent brass. No wiggling it around and putting any force on it. If it doesn't easily fall in, that's when neck turning may work to solve a velocity spread issue. Easy peasy check.

 

[LTH181818]

Here is my dilemma. I purchased a new fierce carbon fury 28 nos this spring.
I like the rifle but it will not keep 5 shot groups to the .5 minute min. that They guarentee.
After talking to them I sent it back for them to go over and shoot.
They only guarantee a 3 shot .5 group which they did. I was hoping they would replace the barrel but they wouldn't because it shot 3 into .5. They were using factory nosler 160 gr accubonds. Nothing I could do at that point, it met their guarantee.
My problem is it is basically impossible to find the loaded ammo they used or the bullets.
I have a friend that does a lot of reloading and shooting and is very good at it. We have shot lots of different kinds and weights of bullets, including hammers, 169 and 155 hh. The thing is this rifle is inconsistent as heck. Sometimes the fliers are 4th and 5th shot and then be the complete opposite or anywhere in between.

The barrel is always cooled between shots and have used 3 different scopes and checked to make sure everything is tight.

On top of that now we are getting bolt clicks with adg brass that's been loaded several times. From the research I've done the bolt click issue is from the chamber being a little smaller and the Redding sizer die is able to resize enough to eliminate the bolt click problem.
Fierce and Christiansen chamber their Rifles smaller to gain accuracy from factory ammo which kinda leaves reloaders at a disadvantage.

I'm thinking of giving up an rebarreling with a proof research and starting over.
I need input on which way to go on this.
I would be ok with .75 or even 1moa but can't get the consistency to get it.

If the rifle will always shoot three into under .5 no problem. When they test and have to shoot two or three groups to get one under .5, I do not consider that a .5 rifle. Just because they say they did test it under .5, it may not be the case.

 

[Riverguy]

Just see if a bullet easily drops into a fired neck of your spent brass. No wiggling it around and putting any force on it. If it doesn't easily fall in, that's when neck turning may work to solve a velocity spread issue. Easy peasy check.

Ok, that sounds easy enough. All my components are at the reloaders place. I will check that out first chance I get.

 

[Ckleeves]

I would change powders for sure. You can't make a barrel like a certain powder sometimes. I have gotten to the point I don't even chase a load with a powder even if it's the "right" powder for that cartridge and everyone else is having great luck with it if I'm not. Made that mistake too many times.

The last one was a 6.5 saum that I fought forever with H-1000. Worked great in my previous Saum, works great in just about everybody else's Saum.
Tried N-565 and it was magic. Same bullet, same jump, same velocity and 5 shot groups went from 3/4" to in the .3's consistently.

 

[Riverguy]

If the rifle will always shoot three into under .5 no problem. When they test and have to shoot two or three groups to get one under .5, I do not consider that a .5 rifle. Just because they say they did test it under .5, it may not be the case.

Yes that is the same question I have also, did they get this .5 group the first time or did it take 10 times to get it??? I want to believe them but from talking to them several times I felt the left hand had no idea what the right hand was doing kinda thing. With that said I do have a somewhat cynical side to my thought process sometimes. That's why I'm a little miffed at them for not swapping barrels.

 

[MagnumManiac]

First things first, you need to check everything when there fliers in question.
Check bedding by sooting or Prussian blueing the action and fitting it with the correct torque on the screws then fire it 5 times. Disassemble and check for rubbing/ movement ANYWHERE in the bedding.
If it doesn't have pillars, get it pillar bedded.
If it has an aluminium bedding block, skim bed it and the recoil lug, only clearance that is necessary is underneath the lug.
The only other reason a barrel can produce fliers is if the barrel walks shots as it warms up, this is often due to insufficient stress relieving.
Seating depth can also walk bullets all over the target, these are not fliers per se', but the harmonics walking the POI.
Try seating depth in .010" increments with 3 shot groups AWAY from the touch point.
Once the tune is found, fine tune with .003"-.005" above and below that point.
You use a powder that is just above a mid range burn with a middle load, say 3g below max and test.
You may be surprised that a primer change can also affect a load in a huge way for the better.

Cheers.

 

[Riverguy]

I would change powders for sure. You can't make a barrel like a certain powder sometimes. I have gotten to the point I don't even chase a load with a powder even if it's the "right" powder for that cartridge and everyone else is having great luck with it if I'm not. Made that mistake too many times.

The last one was a 6.5 saum that I fought forever with H-1000. Worked great in my previous Saum, works great in just about everybody else's Saum.
Tried N-565 and it was magic. Same bullet, same jump, same velocity and 5 shot groups went from 3/4" to in the .3's consistently.

I agree, at this point it certainly can't hurt.
It can only eliminate other alternatives and options. At this point I'm just trying to learn as much as possible.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Just my opinion
There is a lot of factors that go into getting a barrel to shoot what you want. If you are hunting and a .5 MOA is accepted why isn't the barrel good enough? You are only going to shoot one shot (Hopefully) when you are hunting. This rifle that you have isn't for "F" Class. Changing powders, bullet types, weights and jump can give you the results you are looking for, but realistically are you trying to make a "F" Class rifle out of a hunting rig?
I am not trying to discourage you from a having a very accurate rifle. We -Jill & I want every rifle to shoot well, but also know the limitations of the rifle.
I know that you are trying to match the manufacture's results with factory ammo.
Another option is the barrel harmonics. You could go with "Tuner" or if you had access to a good GS you could have them take a few thousandth off your barrel and re-crown it. Taking a little off the end of the barrel changes the harmonics and could produce really good results.
Just my opinion

Hope you get what you are looking for in accuracy.

Happy, Healthy, Prosperous, New Year!
Len & Jill

 

[Riverguy]

First things first, you need to check everything when there fliers in question.
Check bedding by sooting or Prussian blueing the action and fitting it with the correct torque on the screws then fire it 5 times. Disassemble and check for rubbing/ movement ANYWHERE in the bedding.
If it doesn't have pillars, get it pillar bedded.
If it has an aluminium bedding block, skim bed it and the recoil lug, only clearance that is necessary is underneath the lug.
The only other reason a barrel can produce fliers is if the barrel walks shots as it warms up, this is often due to insufficient stress relieving.
Seating depth can also walk bullets all over the target, these are not fliers per se', but the harmonics walking the POI.
Try seating depth in .010" increments with 3 shot groups AWAY from the touch point.
Once the tune is found, fine tune with .003"-.005" above and below that point.
You use a powder that is just above a mid range burn with a middle load, say 3g below max and test.
You may be surprised that a primer change can also affect a load in a huge way for the better.

Cheers.

It is aluminum pillar bedded. I just talked to my smith and think I will ask about skim bedding. We do let the barrel cool between shots, actually we put a vacuum cleaner on the barrel to cool it faster. This good or no??
The seating depth and harmonics I think we could improve on. We will try your advice and see what happens. Not sure about primers, have used cci, fed, and fed match. So ????

 

[Reelamin]

I only shoot 3 shot groups. Sure 5 is better, 10 is better than 5, 20 is better than 10. I just verify several times over what it shoots. I screw up and poo happens. If I can shoot 10 groups and the worst two are .75 and the other 8 are .6 to .4....its a .5" rifle in my world. I have a Savage UL in 28N that shoots 160AB Seconds in Nos. 2nd brass at 3300-3350 (FL or NS brass) into .5 all day long and .7 is rare. I have 1500 little bills including the TI brake into it. No adjusting, no nothing, broke it in, and started shooting groups. For what you paid I would expect it to shoot .25" all day any day.

 

[Riverguy]

Just my opinion
There is a lot of factors that go into getting a barrel to shoot what you want. If you are hunting and a .5 MOA is accepted why isn't the barrel good enough? You are only going to shoot one shot (Hopefully) when you are hunting. This rifle that you have isn't for "F" Class. Changing powders, bullet types, weights and jump can give you the results you are looking for, but realistically are you trying to make a "F" Class rifle out of a hunting rig?
I am not trying to discourage you from a having a very accurate rifle. We -Jill & I want every rifle to shoot well, but also know the limitations of the rifle.
I know that you are trying to match the manufacture's results with factory ammo.
Another option is the barrel harmonics. You could go with "Tuner" or if you had access to a good GS you could have them take a few thousandth off your barrel and re-crown it. Taking a little off the end of the barrel changes the harmonics and could produce really good results.
Just my opinion

Hope you get what you are looking for in accuracy.

Happy, Healthy, Prosperous, New Year!
Len & Jill

The thing is they are saying it is a .5 moa rifle but it is not with any reloads or factory ammo that we have tried. What I want is what they supposedly guarantee, a .5 accuracy guarantee. If they say it shoots .5 with factory ammo then why shouldn't I be able to obtain that with hand loads?

Look, I just want 1 rifle in my arsenal that if I luck out and pull a tag in say unit 23 in Arizona late season and need a rifle that will shoot 700 or 890 yards it is able to do it. Is that a completely unrealistic thing to shoot for?? And no I don't care about f class anything.

 

[Marky_mark]

Have a gunsmith take a look at it. Get them to check how tightly the barrel was torqued. I Had issues with a fierce 338 lapua that was inconsistant. Turns out the barrel was hand tight. I ended up getting it rebarreled into a 300 norma and have the 338 barrel also now too. Worth a try

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

The thing is they are saying it is a .5 moa rifle but it is not with any reloads or factory ammo that we have tried. What I want is what they supposedly guarantee, a .5 accuracy guarantee. If they say it shoots .5 with factory ammo then why shouldn't I be able to obtain that with hand loads?

Look, I just want 1 rifle in my arsenal that if I luck out and pull a tag in say unit 23 in Arizona late season and need a rifle that will shoot 700 or 890 yards it is able to do it. Is that a completely unrealistic thing to shoot for?? And no I don't care about f class anything.

Riverguy
Hard to respond to that. I hope that you can get the results that you want with your hand loads, for that rifle, for upcoming hunts.
Happy New Year!

 

[Riverguy]

Have a gunsmith take a look at it. Get them to check how tightly the barrel was torqued. I Had issues with a fierce 338 lapua that was inconsistant. Turns out the barrel was hand tight. I ended up getting it rebarreled into a 300 norma and have the 338 barrel also now too. Worth a try

I will do that as I am taking it back to the smith a 2nd time. I will ask him to go over it with a fine toothed comb.
I really do like this rifle and want to keep it and shoot it but it is really frustrating trying to get this thing dialed in.