When did the old Corelokt PSP/Interlock/Super-X style bullets quit being effective?

[Philward]

It starred when if you....
Didn't spend $5000+ on your rifle and another $3000+ on optics (notice we can't call them scoped anymore?) With carbon wrapped barrels and some kind of " tactical sniper" chassis ( again, they are not stocks).
If you don't shoot the latest best ever cartridge of the day with both a muzzle brake amd suppressor or have spotting scopes rivalingthr hubble telescope, wind calculator, barometric indicator, while only taking shots over a 1000 yards so you can brag, dress in camo like you are a Vietnam sniper soaked in deer urine or scent eliminator so you won't be detected from 10000 yards.....and wildlife starred wearing body armor. That's when....

I just saw a rifle for $12k somewhere online, can't remember where it was at. Kind of shocking.

 

[Markga]

It starred when if you....
Didn't spend $5000+ on your rifle and another $3000+ on optics (notice we can't call them scoped anymore?) With carbon wrapped barrels and some kind of " tactical sniper" chassis ( again, they are not stocks).
If you don't shoot the latest best ever cartridge of the day with both a muzzle brake amd suppressor or have spotting scopes rivalingthr hubble telescope, wind calculator, barometric indicator, while only taking shots over a 1000 yards so you can brag, dress in camo like you are a Vietnam sniper soaked in deer urine or scent eliminator so you won't be detected from 10000 yards.....and wildlife starred wearing body armor. That's when....

 

[emp1953]

I just saw a rifle for $12k somewhere online, can't remember where it was at. Kind of shocking.

People will charge what they will. And if someone comes along and pays that price then so be it. My $110 1963 M70 from Western Auto is still putting deer in the freezer With an original batch of Corelocks that I got from the same Western Auto store. 8 twenty round boxes. One box is left so looks like I have to hunt for ammo soon.

 

[del2les]

The real answer, about 25 years ago when better bullets came along. I've been shooting ballistic tips and accubond for the last 20 years. Polymer tipped bullets simply have higher BC, more accurate, and provide much better expansion. Simply put, the newer technology just kills much better. Even short range on hogs, the 120-123 grain SST in a 300 blkout or 7.62 x 39 if far more effective than a softpoint. Can you still kill something with the old technology? Sure, you can use a shotgun with a slug if you want. I think the question is, why are you still using them? (I still have boxes of them sitting on the shelf, I don't hunt with them if I can avoid it) My guess is you're using more modern powders, more modern primers, and potentially a more modern barrel even if you are shooting an older cartridge like a 308 or 30-06. ( the 308 is still my favorite caliber, it's great with the new technology) Look at what technology has done just in the last ten years on rifle barrels. We have MOA guarantee on $300 to 400 rilfes from Ruger, Thompson, etc. etc. That didn't exist just 10 years ago. When I was a kid you'd spend a fortune on a gun that would shoot MOA and folks were in awe of a Remington 700 that would shoot MOA. Technology is moving so fast, I can't keep up. Look at what folks are doing with the 6.5's etc. I bet you have a cell phone and not a CB in your truck. You can still reminisce about the old stuff but better is still better and newer is better when it comes to bullets.

Huh? I have and had several OTC hunting and varmint rifles from 45-50+ years ago that shoot well under MOA with my handloads, and a couple of 1963 mfg FN's 270W's that have no issue staying under moa with Sierra and Speer bullets. During my old gun club officer and heavy NM, Palma, BR and other comp shooting days, we had several old Remington 700 and Winchester 70 varmints in 308 that would routinely shoot 1/2-3/4 moa with Sierra 168's and 155 Palmas. I still own a couple of 50 year old varmint rifles that still shoot 0.2-0.3 moa with Speer TNT's and the old 52 HP's.

I cannot begin to count the number of older rifles that would and still do shoot sub MOA with numerous hunting and varmint bullets from Sierra, Speer, Hornady, etc.

And just as an FYI, the Nosler Ballistic Tip came out about 40 years ago, so it isn't exactly new tech.

 

[Willoughby]

I will admit that I bailed on the old soft pointed bullets at some point for boutique style tipped/hollow point bullets with shiny nickel brass and fancy names. I just can't recall why. Last 5 deer in shot dropped in their tracks with a well placed shot with minimal damage. Distances were from 70ish yards up to 300yds. Bullets usually had a small entry and the exit if there was one was about the size of your thumb. I know these style bullets will not work for the majority of this forum strictly because they have the BC of an ACME brick.

I just went thru some of my ammo crates after the bullet construction thread. My comments made me pause and seriously recall why I quit using the pointed soft point ammo. I stopped looking when my back started hurting from moving them out of the closet to the center of the bedroom.


223/5.56 ammo crate was filled with several thousand rounds of various brands of FMJ/Tipped/BTHP/Fusion soft points. Some are specific purpose ammo, Fusions were great for around the house and chicken coop, even killed some big pigs with them up close, 50ish yards.

243 ironically was filled with nothing but pointed soft point 100gr stuff.

6.5 Grendel was Nosler Ballistic Tips cause they flat kill and there's no tracking, but they are not meat friendly.

6.5 Creedmoor was a mishmash of almost 3000rds of stuff usually purchased from members of various forums. Accubonds, Partions, Berger Hybrid Hunters, Elite Hunters, Terminal Ascent, BTHP, FMJ, LRX, and 1000rds of 131gr S&B Pointed soft points.

6.5 PRC is new to me so I only have 200rds each of Nosler Accubonds and Berger 156gr EOL ammo.

280 Ackley was Accubonds, Partions and handloaded Berger VLD-Hs.

The bullets I have used of these newer style concepts have all killed deer effectively and efficiently. I am a meat hunter, so I don't like wasting/losing meat to excessive damage. I was raised by my grandparents so everything we ate came from the woods or we raised it in the garden or pigs, chickens and cows.

We get 5 tags here in Texas and other than the occasional cull, I try to shoot does, more of them and they don't get the pressure bucks do. I am also not above taking a headshot in the perfect scenario, but that takes an alignment of the stars. The caveat is, a big doe is 120lbs hanging dressed out, they are rare on our lease, most are 95ish - 105ish pounds. We hunt over corn feeders, there is usually a kiddo tagging along or doing the shooting.

I rambled thru that to ponder the question, when did our parents and grandparents bullets quit being effective?

I am going to shoot the first doe of the season with the S&B 131gr pointed soft point, then possibly all 5 of them. They are consistent velocity wise and they are plenty accurate enough, plus they are super cheap, less than a $1 a pop. The box stated 2740fps from a weird 21 1/2" barrel IIRC, but I routinely saw 2830 to 2855, the 20shot velocity average was 2837fps out of a 24" Proof Sendero Light. Their stated G1 is .389 and the G7 was .195. The longest shot to one of the feeders is a hair over 300yds, so I think with the smaller stature of our deer, these will be a great choice. I am curious about the wound cavity. I shot a couple of biggish sows at the farm in the 180-200lb range, but didn't cut them open, one took a couple of steps and never twitched, the other fell in her tracks and did the curly shuffle and I stuck another one under the chin to shorten any suffering.

Thoughts, recommendations, any potential issues I am not seeing? If not, then a range trip to get more data with the Labradar, verify the data at the 200yd station and then verify at the farm at 300yds and 400yds. If I did my math right, 400yds is on the edge of the 1800fps minimum threshold for expansion, although I have not found a recommendation for minimum expansion velocity for these bullets. At the lease, 250yds will be the maximum yardage I attempt a shot and it will be the high CNS shot.

I am not in the same situation as most here, 400yds is a long poke. Most of my deer are shot off of feeders at 160yds, 220yds and 250yds but I have shot Antelope and deer in excess of 700yds, with a 240 Weatherby and a 257 Weatherby, my only bull elk was about 160yds with a 300 Weatherby. The cows I shot were anywhere from 60yds to 250ish. Lots of pigs out to 450yds, a few at close to 500yds and coyotes up to 700ish yds when I did nuisance control for the county.

***Edit***
My math was wrong, two different ballistic calculators put the 1800fps between 450 and 475, but that will be well beyond my goals.

I feel like a 150gr peice of gravel going 2500 fps will kill if it hits the right spot

 

[hawg chaser]

They never stopped being effective. They're not tactikool, so they're often overlooked for something that costs double yet isn't any more effective.

 

[okhunter86]

Huh? I have and had several OTC hunting and varmint rifles from 45-50+ years ago that shoot well under MOA with my handloads, and a couple of 1963 mfg FN's 270W's that have no issue staying under moa with Sierra and Speer bullets. During my old gun club officer and heavy NM, Palma, BR and other comp shooting days, we had several old Remington 700 and Winchester 70 varmints in 308 that would routinely shoot 1/2-3/4 moa with Sierra 168's and 155 Palmas. I still own a couple of 50 year old varmint rifles that still shoot 0.2-0.3 moa with Speer TNT's and the old 52 HP's.

I cannot begin to count the number of older rifles that would and still do shoot sub MOA with numerous hunting and varmint bullets from Sierra, Speer, Hornady, etc.

And just as an FYI, the Nosler Ballistic Tip came out about 40 years ago, so it isn't exactly new tech.

Every rifle you just mentioned was shooting highly specific bullets and handloaded or was a competition rifle not a $300 and $400 off the shelf budget gun. You make my point for me. "With my handloads" "NM, Palma, BR" "Sierra 168's and 155 Palmas". None of what you mention is standard hunting bullets or rifles. A Remington 700 has always cost double or triple what the inflation adjusted price of the new budget guns cost yet on average the new budget guns shoot much better than most 700s ever did with factory ammo. Why? Technology, new and different automated manufacturing techniques created more accurate barrels on average than before. This is not hyperbole, it's fact and documented numerous places. For everyone of your "several" old 700s that shot a 1/2" group, 15 of them couldn't shoot an inch. That's still true today, for the most part, for an off the shelf 700.

 

[memtb]

People will charge what they will. And if someone comes along and pays that price then so be it. My $110 1963 M70 from Western Auto is still putting deer in the freezer With an original batch of Corelocks that I got from the same Western Auto store. 8 twenty round boxes. One box is left so looks like I have to hunt for ammo soon.

You'll likely finding hunting ammo tougher to find..…
than hunting for deer! memtb

 

[okhunter86]

"Even most budget rifles are expected to shoot under 1 MOA, something that was highly sought after 30 or 40 years ago." https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/guns/the-good-ol-days-of-guns-are-now/

 

[memtb]

Every rifle you just mentioned was shooting highly specific bullets and handloaded or was a competition rifle not a $300 and $400 off the shelf budget gun. You make my point for me. "With my handloads" "NM, Palma, BR" "Sierra 168's and 155 Palmas". None of what you mention is standard hunting bullets or rifles. A Remington 700 has always cost double or triple what the inflation adjusted price of the new budget guns cost yet on average the new budget guns shoot much better than most 700s ever did with factory ammo. Why? Technology, new and different automated manufacturing techniques created more accurate barrels on average than before. This is not hyperbole, it's fact and documented numerous places. For everyone of your "several" old 700s that shot a 1/2" group, 15 of them couldn't shoot an inch. That's still true today, for the most part, for an off the shelf 700.

Back in the late '70's early '80's I had a Win. Model 88 (lever gun) in .308 Win., that with my handloads (165 gr. Sierra hunting bullets) could pretty regularly (not every time) give sub 1", 5 shot groups @ 100 yrds.

The 88's while considered pretty accurate….. weren't supposed to shoot as good as the bolt guns. I have to believe that the bullets weren't that bad.
Also, in the late '80's I had a load for my Model 70 in .375 H&H that would occasionally crowd 1/2" for a 5 shot group using Hornady 270 SP's. ……another hunting bullet!

Summary: the hunting bullets of yesteryear were pretty darn good! memtb

 

[memtb]

"Even most budget rifles are expected to shoot under 1 MOA, something that was highly sought after 30 or 40 years ago." https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/guns/the-good-ol-days-of-guns-are-now/

Improvements in low budget rifles and likely somewhat better factory ammo and for most folks, better glass…… likely are great contributors to this "newfound" accuracy! memtb

 

[okhunter86]

Improvements in low budget rifles and likely somewhat better factory ammo and for most folks, better glass…… likely are great contributors to this "newfound" accuracy! memtb

Yep. Exactly my point. Better technology has improved things all around for hunting and shooting, bullets included.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

And yet to this day, my longest range kills have still been with "old style" cup-n-core SPBT's designed decades ago. We used what we had, and we never knew we couldn't.

Yup, me too. I've worked with a lot of the needle tipped bt's and some of the better mono pills the last number of years, but my longest kills are still with Hornady and Sierra sp's of one flavor or another.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

People will charge what they will. And if someone comes along and pays that price then so be it. My $110 1963 M70 from Western Auto is still putting deer in the freezer With an original batch of Corelocks that I got from the same Western Auto store. 8 twenty round boxes. One box is left so looks like I have to hunt for ammo soon.

what chambering?