What's Wrong With .30 Caliber? By Bryan Litz

[jonoMT]

Bryan (or anybody else) would you consider a load hot (and hard on a barrel) given the following:

1) 2645 fps .308 Win - Lapua brass/165 gr. Accubond/46 gr. Varget/CCI BR2 primer

2) 20" heavy fluted barrel treated w/Tubb's Final Finish

Since treating the barrel, velocities (as expected) went down about 100fps. So I went up to what is nominally considered a "hot" load - 46 gr. of Varget - for that cartridge. I'm still getting the accuracy I want and show no over pressure signs, although I'm sure it's incrementally harder on the brass. If it was a 24" barrel I'd answer my own question: No. But given the shorter length, I wonder a little bit. My guess is that the answer is still no since the velocity is below the 3000+ velocities achieved with .30 magnum cartridges.

 

[BryanLitz]

jono,
I would not consider 46 grains of varget behind 165 grain bullets to be hot in a 308 Win. It's probably getting near max, so if you have good accuracy don't be tempted to go any hotter.

As far as being hard on the barrel, .308 Winchesters have great barrel life, from 3,000 rounds minimum for high rate of fire competition rifles to 15,000 rounds + for low rate of fire hunting rifles.
-Bryan

 

[jonoMT]

Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely not going any further than 46 gr. I'm not even sure I could stuff a bullet in there with any more powder, but since I reached the target velocity I want I'm good to go for this rifle.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Jono,

All due respect to Bryan, but yes, the load sounds a bit warm. A muzzle velocity of 2,650 isn't too fast for a .308, until you start talking about a 20" barrel. Just watch your pressure signs, to include primer appearance (they'll lie to you, too!) bolt lift and extraction ease, case life and primer pocket tightness, etc.. If any of these shows up, I'd drop that load back by at least a grain or so and re-evaluate. You might also take a look at some of the Vihtavuori 500 series high-energy powders as another way to boost velocity a bit while dodging some of the pressure problems. I'd suggest the N540 or possible N550 as good prospects.

Varget's a great powder in the .308, but yeah, your load sounds a bit warm to me . . . two eyes, ten fingers, no replacements, you know?

Kevin Thomas

 

[jonoMT]

Kevin,

As far as I can tell from my tests and measurements, there is just a minor amount of change to the brass vs. my 44 gr. load. Bolt lift and extraction feel just the same and it was not a problem to eject the fired cases. Regarding primers, are there other things I should be checking for besides flattening and cratering. It seems to take as much pressure in the press to pop them out as it ever has. However, I realize that as the brass is repeatedly worked it will change and require more detailed inspection.

I appreciate the advice and will certainly keep careful track with this load. It is as far as I will ever go with it and I do measure/trickle every charge so I won't accidentally drop anything over that.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

And therein lies the rub; lot's of differences from gun to gun. Bottom line is, how is YOUR rifle handling it? From what you're saying, it sounds like it's just fine. No extraction issues, primer pockects staying tight after multiple firings, etc.. As I said, primer appearance can be an indicator, but they'll lie to you, too. I place more stock in the other indicators, specifically a combination of these indicators, than I do primer appearance. I generally used a much lighter load for accuracy testing, and a slightly lower velocity, but that was with 26" barrels. It was this velocity discrepencey (from the shorter bbl), along with the actual charge weight itself that prompted my response. Sounds like you're fine here.

They really can be individuals, and the often need to be treated as such.

Glad to help,

Kevin Thomas

 

[samloz]

This is a thread for discussion of the article, What's Wrong With .30 Caliber? By Bryan Litz. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.

I am convinced after reading this article and messing with a 300WSM that I want to buy a 260 rem. Rifle. And although the 260 rem. cartridge may grow in popularity, it may be some time for BerettaUSA to decide to add this caliber to the Tikka T3 line of rifles they import from Finland. I wanted to ask this forum for their experience with modifying a rifle... say that I get the Tikka T3 in 243 win. Is it possible to send it to be reworked and get a good 260 rem. keeping the same barrel?
Thank you in advance for sharing your recommendations.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Very simple process. Get a quality barrel in the contour and length you wish, send to a competent gunsmith WITH some cases sized with your dies the way to you intend to use in the field (he will headspace off these cases), write a chq, wait, enjoy....

There are no other mods needed to your rifle going from a 243 to 260. A very simple job and similar swaps done everyday. Do budget a proper bedding as part of your conversion. Will pay huge dividends on the target.



Bryan Litz, I have heard that Berger is working on their 338's and we wait for those. You could be really annoying to Eric and give us an ETA....

Any chance that Berger is also working on some heavy 30cals?

With the present line up of bullets, the 7mm 180gr offers so much but if there were quality 30cals with BC well over 0.7, that would certainly turn the tables at least from our perspective.

A 240gr VLD should have a BC around 0.78 to 0.8, use a 10 or 9 twist and be easily pushed to 3000fps by any of our healthier cartridges.

Now that would be kind of interesting me thinks...lightbulb

Jerry

 

[BryanLitz]

Jerry,
We are working on it.
The .338's are still projected for sometime this fall as far as I know.
You have a great idea about heavier .30 cal bullets (where did you think of that?!)
Rest assured I'm working on the designs. In the future I hope to leverage the potential of the .30 caliber with proper weight bullets and design optimization.
Take care,
-Bryan

 

[JRinCo]

Let me second that request for a 230 to 240 grain bullet in .308. If someone happens to have an in, (wink wink) at Berger Bullets, my heavy 1000 yd. bench rifle would really like some of those!
Jerry

 

[Bert]

I have been shooting a 30 06 for 20 years most shots in the 100 to 200 yards longest one 375 yards after spending many hours of reading on this site and the last 8 pages i under stand how little i know about all this .My question is should i change to a heavier grain bullet , i shoot a 165Gr say a 185Gr i would like to shoot deer out to 400 or 500 yards for now. Or would this make a difference in accuracy under 500 yards . thanks Robert

 

[jmason]

I have been shooting a 30 06 for 20 years most shots in the 100 to 200 yards longest one 375 yards after spending many hours of reading on this site and the last 8 pages i under stand how little i know about all this .My question is should i change to a heavier grain bullet , i shoot a 165Gr say a 185Gr i would like to shoot deer out to 400 or 500 yards for now. Or would this make a difference in accuracy under 500 yards . thanks Robert

bert there's nothing wrong with a 165 bullet. You would get a better response if you pose this question in a new thread somewhere.

 

[BountyHunter]

Brian

Is this still accurate now with the new 30 cal VLD bullets out now since this article was written?

Not sure it is fair or accurate to compare a 180 VLD to a 220 non VLD, especially when there at 30 cal VLDs out with higher BC (JLK for example) than the 7 you used.

I know in the LR BR game we are running 210s from 2850- 3000 fps in a 300 WSM and getting 2-4k rounds on barrel life, while the 7mms are less than half that on a good day.

Recoil is recoil and cannot be mitigated except by dropping bullet weight, or FPS or adding weight to the rifle.

BH

 

[crowsnest2002]

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