What 45-70 bullet for baited bears

[Dean2]

One thing I forgot to mention is you should slug your barrel to make sure of how big the bore actually is and pick a bullet 2 to 4 thousandths over that number.
Also when shooting a cast bullet over 1400 fps a good lube on the bullet is needed unless the bullet is coated and then nothing is needed.
There are things regular casters know that it takes a forum like this for many casters to pass on information on what don't work and what does work.

I agree that slugging the bores in old 38-55, 32-40 etc has value. I have seen 38-55 that was .377 all the way to .394. In all of the 45-70 Marlins I have owned, made from 1935 to now, I have never seen a variance in bore diameter. Even in really old Spencer's, unless the bore was really worn, the bore diameter didn't really vary. Micro groove versus regular rifling aside there really is next to no variation that would affect what cast bullet you want to use.

 

[Old Rooster]

Dean2 you evidently have more experience in older rifles as I have a 45-70 Marlin I have had for many years.
I did own a Harington Richardson single shot that had a tight bore.If I used what I shot in my Marlin I'm not sure the bullet would have exited.
Very accurate gun and it was stolen from my truck while I was paying for gas.

We have a front coming in next week bringing snow and cold and I think it visited you first.Looked like it is coming from the north.
Stay warm partner the warm weather is around the corner.

 

[Dean2]

Dean2 you evidently have more experience in older rifles as I have a 45-70 Marlin I have had for many years.
I did own a Harington Richardson single shot that had a tight bore.If I used what I shot in my Marlin I'm not sure the bullet would have exited.
Very accurate gun and it was stolen from my truck while I was paying for gas.

We have a front coming in next week bringing snow and cold and I think it visited you first.Looked like it is coming from the north.
Stay warm partner the warm weather is around the corner.

I have played with a very large number of antique guns. It is why I try to give what I have learned as it isn't easy info to acquire. They really are interesting and a lot of fun to shoot.

As far as weather it has actually been really nice here the last few weeks. Very little snow and daytime highs around +45F. Normal for this time of year is -25 F, so by comparison a real heat wave. Nice to be running around in short sleeves after the-45 in Dec and early Jan.

 

[Ua26fitter]

No need to spend all the time to slugging and messing with lead.

I shoot the 250 shock hammer. It performs better than hard lead because well it's copper. Petals separate so no big round nose that needs weight to keep pushing it for penatration. No need to go so heavy and deal with recoil.
You're shooting short range so all that weight with a big heavy cast does nothing for you.

I get 2600 fps with AA1680 from my Marlin Cowboy with 26" barrel.

Bears are thin skinned and are not typically hard to kill. A 45-70 with most bullets at close range is plenty gun for any black bear.

Kris

 

[Varmint Hunter]

No need to spend all the time to slugging and messing with lead.

I shoot the 250 shock hammer. It performs better than hard lead because well it's copper. Petals separate so no big round nose that needs weight to keep pushing it for penatration. No need to go so heavy and deal with recoil.
You're shooting short range so all that weight with a big heavy cast does nothing for you.

I get 2600 fps with AA1680 from my Marlin Cowboy with 26" barrel.

Bears are thin skinned and are not typically hard to kill. A 45-70 with most bullets at close range is plenty gun for any black bear.

Kris

That's rather impressive for a 45-70, even with a 250gr bullet. What charge weight are you using to get 2,600 fps?

 

[Dean2]

That's rather impressive for a 45-70, even with a 250gr bullet. What charge weight are you using to get 2,600 fps?

Whatever charge he is using make sure you don't shoot that load in a lever. Those speeds are attainable in a Ruger 1 or something like that but will be over pressure in a Marlin 1895, despite what the guy that posted it says..

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Whatever charge he is using make sure you don't shoot that load in a lever. Those speeds are attainable in a Ruger 1 or something like that but will be over pressure in a Marlin 1895, despite what the guy that posted it says..

I'm currently running a Barnes book max charge of AA1680 under a Hornady 250gr MonoFlex bullet in my 1895. I get 2,330fps but my bbl is 18.5". Normally, I'd expect a drop of about 150fps from the velocity of a 26" bbl.

It's possible that the Hammer 250gr generates less engraving pressure and allows for an increase in charge weight. I'm always interested in hearing how others achieve their reloading goals.

 

[Dean2]

I'm currently running a Barnes book max charge of AA1680 under a Hornady 250gr MonoFlex bullet in my 1895. I get 2,330fps but my bbl is 18.5". Normally, I'd expect a drop of about 150fps from the velocity of a 26" bbl.

It's possible that the Hammer 250gr generates less engraving pressure and allows for an increase in charge weight. I'm always interested in hearing how others achieve their reloading goals.

With smokeless powder, barrel length makes very little difference to velocity in large bore rifles. I have a guide gun and a 22 inch Marlin. With 350 RN and the same charge of 3031 lit by a Fed 215 magnum primer, they get within 20 fps of each other. I checked because I wanted to use the same ammo for either. Have checked it on a few others, get nearly the same outcome from 18 to 26 inches. All i am saying is, I would not be running real hot loads in an 1895. They will take it for a while but they will loosen up on a steady diet of hot loads. There really is no need to try and get the last 200 fps out of a 45 70. A 350 grain rn kills just as good at 1400 fps as it does at 2100 fps and it actually penetrates better. I have posted The Buffalo Bore article by Garret many times that supports this. There are way better choices for lighter bullets at higher speeds

 

[Varmint Hunter]

With smokeless powder, barrel length makes very little difference to velocity in large bore rifles. I have a guide gun and a 22 inch Marlin. With 350 RN and the same charge of 3031 lit by a Fed 215 magnum primer, they get within 20 fps of each other. I checked because I wanted to use the same ammo for either. Have checked it on a few others, get nearly the same outcome from 18 to 26 inches. All i am saying is, I would not be running real hot loads in an 1895. They will take it for a while but they will loosen up on a steady diet of hot loads. There really is no need to try and get the last 200 fps out of a 45 70. A 350 grain rn kills just as good at 1400 fps as it does at 2100 fps and it actually penetrates better. I have posted The Buffalo Bore article by Garret many times that supports this. There are way better choices for lighter bullets at higher speeds

Your observations are interesting because I have noticed that barrel length was a big factor when comparing loads in my 18.5" 1895 against my buddy's 26" 1895. Other shooters who have experimented with the 250 Monoflex and used the same charge of AA1680 saw a fairly significant increase in velocity over what I was getting in my 18.5bbl. All of my loads were fired over a LabRadar. Barnes also registered much higher velocities but they too used a longer bbl.

I'm just fooling around with light bullets in my 45-70. They really do "flatten the curve" while reducing recoil. The 45-70, regardless of bullet, sails through deer and black bears like they were made of paper.

 

[Dean2]

Your observations are interesting because I have noticed that barrel length was a big factor when comparing loads in my 18.5" 1895 against my buddy's 26" 1895. Other shooters who have experimented with the 250 Monoflex and used the same charge of AA1680 saw a fairly significant increase in velocity over what I was getting in my 18.5bbl. All of my loads were fired over a LabRadar. Barnes also registered much higher velocities but they too used a longer bbl.

I'm just fooling around with light bullets in my 45-70. They really do "flatten the curve" while reducing recoil. The 45-70, regardless of bullet, sails through deer and black bears like they were made of paper.

I wonder if part of the difference is your much higher velocity loads. I shoot my 350 RN and 400 grain cast in the 1400 and 1500 range. Your results makes me think I should check velocity variation in short and long with them at 2200 fps. Give me something to do in the spring.

 

[memtb]

I'm pretty fond of my "homegrown" cast, powder coated, 430 gr. wide metplats @ 1790 mv from my GG. The group photo below (4x scope) is the very first powder charge I tried. The velocity and accuracy was good enough for me! It ain't perfection….but, it ai bad! memtb

 

[Ua26fitter]

Despite

I'm currently running a Barnes book max charge of AA1680 under a Hornady 250gr MonoFlex bullet in my 1895. I get 2,330fps but my bbl is 18.5". Normally, I'd expect a drop of about 150fps from the velocity of a 26" bbl.

It's possible that the Hammer 250gr generates less engraving pressure and allows for an increase in charge weight. I'm always interested in hearing how others achieve their reloading goals.

Barrel length plays into it a lot. So does powder type. Despite what some know it alls say it's safe in my gun and it's a level action. I actually found the load on the Barnes web page and they advertise it at 2600 fps with a shorter Barrel and that powder. I could push it more but am pretty happy with the velocity as it is. I won't share the powder charge due to the fact it wouldn't be safe to someone using it in the wrong gun. But it is right in line with Barnes 250 bullets.

Kris

 

[Dean2]

Despite



Barrel length plays into it a lot. So does powder type. Despite what some know it alls say it's safe in my gun and it's a level action. I actually found the load on the Barnes web page and they advertise it at 2600 fps with a shorter Barrel and that powder. I could push it more but am pretty happy with the velocity as it is. I won't share the powder charge due to the fact it wouldn't be safe to someone using it in the wrong gun. But it is right in line with Barnes 250 bullets.

Kris

You are free to call me names but just for giggles I would suggest you check a couple more loading manuals. Hodgdon lists max loads for the 1895 with a 250 Barnes as 39,000 PSI, and that goes down quickly as the bullet weight goes up. If you look at the Barnes data, they tested to 42,000 PSI in their 1895. Hodgdon lists max loads in the Ruger 1 and strong bolt actions "modern rifles" as 44,600 PSI for the 250 Barnes and that too drops by 5,000 psi with the 405.

Do whatever you like with your guns, but I can tell you for sure humping that hot a load in an 1895 is going too loosen it up.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Something that I just thought of:

I'm loading the 250 MonoFlex in shortened brass so that the cartridges will cycle through the 1895 action. That could create a bit more pressure in my rifle.

The 250 Mono and AA1680 is a very accurate combination.