UK gunsmiths and custom rifle builders refusing to work on Bergara rifles because of their poor quality

[DarryH]

My old gunsmith, who passed away at least 10 years ago, constantly badmouthed the Weatherby Mark V.
He constantly called them crap. Funny thing too, he was badmouthing the German made guns. I spent enough time there, that eventually I learned the source of his complaints. He tried to repair a customer's rifle. He had problems and ended up sending it to Weatherby. I remember he complained about a long wait and poor customer service. I don't recall him saying anything about the quality of the repair. I THINK he just held onto the "mad" for years. How many repeated that for years after thinking it was gospel. This was well before the internet days.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I have several bergara. One I have even put well over 1,000 rounds through, never had it fail, it has always fired. All of the 5 bergaras I own, all have shot better than the 1MOA guarantee. One, even shot .25moa out of the box with several factory ammo. All guns shot better than .6moa, with 5 shot groups.

I did have an issue with one of them failing to fire, because of firing pin issues. I called up bergara, and they had it fixed and shipped back to me in 2 weeks time. They also cleaned the gun. I can't say I've had the same luck with other factory rifles. They also paid the shipping both ways. Which, I've had an issue with another factory rifle that wanted me to pay the shipping. With a little back and forth and some convenience, I finally got that manufactured to pay the shipping. Only to ship it back with the same issues I sent it to them with.

All that being said, they're no where near as nice as my custom rifles I own. Of course, the bergara rifles are literally half the cost of one of my custom actions. Just the action, not the whole custom rifle.
I can say, I would trust taking a beregara rifle hunting.

Now, the question I have to all of you, what's the expectation of a 700-1,000 rifle? I don't expect it to be anywhere near as nice as one of my custom rifle. I also, don't expect it to shot less than the 1 MOA guarantee they clams the gun to have, but all have shot better then 1MOA. And they all have fired every time I pull the trigger. No, they don't cycle as nice as a custom action, and if they did why would we need a gunsmith?

I'm not claiming they're the best rifle out there for a factory option, but they do shoot and shoot well.

When I decided on the HMR PRO, it was because I wanted the SS action and barrel. IMHO, the bolt design is better in this product line. I know a few of b14 owners that have said this. It runs smooth and the action is nice. Yes it's not a custom, but it didn't cost like one either ($1550). Any factory gun that claims 1 moa from factory ammo can, (most of the time) be improved upon. It's true that some smith's don't like to re-barrel them due to the machining. But some will. Smiths are an interesting bunch and all have their own likes and dislikes. Im just glad I got a gun i'm happy with at a cost point that i'm comfortable with.

 

[44-40]

A search of problems with Bergara rifles have some concerning, and catastrophic events, with serious injury to those firing factory ammo. With pictures of split stocks and blown off bolt shrouds are quite frequently reported.
Some have reported newer bolts have smaller firing pin holes and pin diameters, and a new steel bolt shroud, because the large diameter firing pin pierced the primer cup letting high pressure gas into the bolt, blowing off the bolt shroud pieces towards the shooters face. Also timing issues reported, appears to be quite a bit of shoddy factory work...so as a guy who does his own rifle building I can see why gunsmiths would avoid this action. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the outcome of putting a new barrel on an action with as many problems as reported. Some may have already been factory addressed or maybe not.
You can true, recut, bore raceway, sleeve bolts, retime, bush firing pin, etc, but with all that done...what do you really have, with all the time and effort expended.
So I can understand why a gunsmith would say no.

 

[simone]

A search of problems with Bergara rifles have some concerning, and catastrophic events, with serious injury to those firing factory ammo. With pictures of split stocks and blown off bolt shrouds are quite frequently reported.
Some have reported newer bolts have smaller firing pin holes and pin diameters, and a new steel bolt shroud, because the large diameter firing pin pierced the primer cup letting high pressure gas into the bolt, blowing off the bolt shroud pieces towards the shooters face. Also timing issues reported, appears to be quite a bit of shoddy factory work...so as a guy who does his own rifle building I can see why gunsmiths would avoid this action. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the outcome of putting a new barrel on an action with as many problems as reported. Some may have already been factory addressed or maybe not.
You can true, recut, bore raceway, sleeve bolts, retime, bush firing pin, etc, but with all that done...what do you really have, with all the time and effort expended.
So I can understand why a gunsmith would say no.

Everytime i hear stuff like these is about "reports", very rarely personal experience. I am not saying there were not some issues (as with any rifle) but it seems like these issues are mentioned multiple times for any one that actually occurred. The new shroud is steel, the firing pin are now fixed in diameter. There was a bad batch of shrouds and this made a lot of noise. The firing pin diameter issue was a design flaw also with any other brands as you certainly know and it was just considered a not so nice feature for AI and remington guns for years. Oh, one thing: do you know also some mighty blaser r93 blow up in the face of the proud (and financially struggling, after the purchase) customers? If memory serves me well, there were also some severe medical consequences in some cases. This is not reported anywhere with Bergaras as far as I know. Btw the bolt shroud issue is long gone man, so what is left to complain about? It's not a provocation, i am genuinely curious.

Also how can a synthetic stock split?

 

[44-40]

Everytime i hear stuff like these is about "reports", very rarely personal experience. I am not saying there were not some issues (as with any rifle) but it seems like these issues are mentioned multiple times for any one that actually occurred. The new shroud is steel, the firing pin are now fixed in diameter. There was a bad batch of shrouds and this made a lot of noise. The firing pin diameter issue was a design flaw also with any other brands as you certainly know and it was just considered a not so nice feature for AI and remington guns for years. Oh, one thing: do you know also some mighty blaser r93 blow up in the face of the proud (and financially struggling, after the purchase) customers? If memory serves me well, there were also some severe medical consequences in some cases. This is not reported anywhere with Bergaras as far as I know. Btw the bolt shroud issue is long gone man, so what is left to complain about? It's not a provocation, i am genuinely curious.

Also how can a synthetic stock split?

Wow, sounds like someone is upset over his rifle. I just looked up Bergara problems, some have pictures of blown out bolt shrouds, and one with a split stock by the bolt magazine area. Some stated they addressed some of these problems as I stated, others still complain about that & about other problems.
So I can see why a gunsmith would not work on them, depending on when the action was made if problems continue...it's up to the gunsmith as to the rifles he will work on ...once a company puts out bad quality, faulty functionality, or dangerous guns it's hard to recover immediately, it takes time. Sig, Smith& Wesson, Ruger, Remington, Glock, etc have all had recalls. They work in the problem and try to immediately fix it, as most companies do. Bergara seems to have let it get out of hand for to long, followed by spoty quality as reported, and noticed by gunsmiths who try to repair them. Word gets out gunsmiths refuse to work on them, or rebarrel them. I can't blame them cause now their name is on it. Why take a chance of a ruined reputation as a gunsmith?
I do not have a Bergara anything, and I personally do not want one, even if the production and design problems weren't persistent and slowly addressed...but others obviously would. So hopefully they will get it all corrected some day.
If there were no problems gunsmiths would work on them and a lot of people wouldn't be legitimately complaining...just the facts.
If you like yours and it's working, good for you,
great ...I don't care one way or the other. No dog in the fight and gladly it ain't mine.

 

[simone]

Wow, sounds like someone is upset over his rifle. I just looked up Bergara problems, some have pictures of blown out bolt shrouds, and one with a split stock by the bolt magazine area. Some stated they addressed some of these problems as I stated, others still complain about that & about other problems.
So I can see why a gunsmith would not work on them, depending on when the action was made if problems continue...it's up to the gunsmith as to the rifles he will work on ...once a company puts out bad quality, faulty functionality, or dangerous guns it's hard to recover immediately, it takes time. Sig, Smith& Wesson, Ruger, Remington, Glock, etc have all had recalls. They work in the problem and try to immediately fix it, as most companies do. Bergara seems to have let it get out of hand for to long, followed by spoty quality as reported, and noticed by gunsmiths who try to repair them. Word gets out gunsmiths refuse to work on them, or rebarrel them. I can't blame them cause now their name is on it. Why take a chance of a ruined reputation as a gunsmith?
I do not have a Bergara anything, and I personally do not want one, even if the production and design problems weren't persistent and slowly addressed...but others obviously would. So hopefully they will get it all corrected some day.
If there were no problems gunsmiths would work on them and a lot of people wouldn't be legitimately complaining...just the facts.
If you like yours and it's working, good for you,
great ...I don't care one way or the other. No dog in the fight and gladly it ain't mine.

Yeah. Remington behaved like a serious company and fixed its issues, definitely
From what i see bergara didn't make any recall because there wasn'tany major issue to make a recall. You say it got out of hand for too long but more and more magazines and independent reviewers talk about bergara and the brand increased its sales hugely so something seems a bit off in your totally subjective and likely uninformed statement.

By the way, you see, that's what i really don't like about forums. Why should you be concerned about me being upset or not? I am not, it's probably several years i have not been upset for anything outside my job actually, i take my hobbies and interests in a very chill way, but even if i was upset, why pointing it out? This thread was intented to ask IF there were smiths refusing to work on this brand in the US (and apparently that's not the case), it was not about what is your opinion on a rifle you never owned and you never will own. Otherwise point out one of the smiths that you say are not working on these rifles. Most people complaining are people that haven't ever owned one, and you are one of them! The question is.. why? Maybe people don't like knowing a spanish brand is putting out much better remington 700 clones than the 700s they already own. Go figure..

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

Today i was involved in a conversation on a british hunting forum. It was a purely recreational topic: the most overrated hunting rifles on the market. At some point people started bashing remington as usual until a guy, who seem to be a pretty famous custom rifle builder in the UK, said that bergaras are so bad he even refuses to work on them if a customer wanna use one for a project. Someone else suddenly said "Reports are dodgy Quality control, wildly variable accuracy, poor metal quality. A couple of well known riflesmiths I know (one may or may not post on here a bit) refuse to use components-one stating he "wouldn't grow tomatoes up one".

I never heard anything this extreme. Of course, multiple members popped up reinforcing what this smith said, even saying that most gunsmiths and custom rifles builder the UK refuse to work with these rifles. Someone said Bergaras have a very bad reputation and I shouldn't be surprised About what i was reading.

I am wondering if this phenomenon, which i am really doubtful exists, especially to the extent some guys stated on that forum, exists in the US. I should add that i wrote in that forum a few months ago, before purchasing my last rifle, to ask about bergaras and the general consensus was positive even there (?).

my experience with b14s is limited to a handful of rifles and was great for what is worth

Thanks!!

Speaking from my personal experience, I really like my B-14. It'll print 1/2" group with HH 110gr bullets and it has less than 90 rounds through it. Smooth action, easy to clean, feel great in the hands... I imagine that all makers can turn out a few goose eggs. However, I happy with mine.

 

[Lnewton]

Pretty much. I also don't like how much slop they seem to have. When you pull the bolt all the way back, the ones I've used have a significant amount of play in the bolt. Once the bolt is closed it seems nice and tight, so clearly it doesn't matter too much, but it just screams "cheap" to me. Like $0.99 doorknobs, they work fine but the moment you touch them you can tell they were made for pennies on the dollar. My browning made Winchester 70 is in the same price range as the b14 but feels significantly better in the hands. Again it's just a preference, but the Bergaras just feel very cheap in the hands to me compared to others in the same price range. Even the savage axis feels better than the few Bergaras I've handled, maybe some are better than others though. But if that's the case that means they have some serious quality variance.

I have not opened and closed the bolt on one savage wether it was an axis or model 10/110 that even came close to how smooth and nice the action is on the Bergara. For what its worth, I have owned several pretty nice model 700's over the years and the two B-14 ridge rifles I currently own are hands down superior in all ways to them.

 

[C-130 Dude]

A search of problems with Bergara rifles have some concerning, and catastrophic events, with serious injury to those firing factory ammo. With pictures of split stocks and blown off bolt shrouds are quite frequently reported.
Some have reported newer bolts have smaller firing pin holes and pin diameters, and a new steel bolt shroud, because the large diameter firing pin pierced the primer cup letting high pressure gas into the bolt, blowing off the bolt shroud pieces towards the shooters face. Also timing issues reported, appears to be quite a bit of shoddy factory work...so as a guy who does his own rifle building I can see why gunsmiths would avoid this action. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the outcome of putting a new barrel on an action with as many problems as reported. Some may have already been factory addressed or maybe not.
You can true, recut, bore raceway, sleeve bolts, retime, bush firing pin, etc, but with all that done...what do you really have, with all the time and effort expended.
So I can understand why a gunsmith would say no.

Name one rifle that has never had a problem. Ever. If it is man made, it can fail. All I can say is I like what I've got and it serves me well. So far no issues.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

I don't know how good QA/QC is at Bergara but the comment about poor metal quality might be related to the cast bolt shroud that was used a few years ago.

You can find reports of it at different forums. And some claims of poor customer service. My friend saw one fail during a group hunt and loaned his backup rifle to his friend. The Bergara was dead in the water.

The cast shroud design has been replaced. I have not heard of any failures since.

And this is pure speculation but there still exist culture differences and biases in Europe, and maybe more so with older generations.

For example I know people there that still resent Germans. So some people in the UK may look down at a product made by Bergara in Spain.

I don't think Spain has ever had the reputation of being a leader in advanced design and manufacturing so people in the UK may feel that they make an inferior product.

I don't have any interest in Bergara rifles but have one of their barrels on a different brand of factory rifle. Bergara supposedly supplies a lot barrels to other rifle manufacturers.

With regard to "culture differences and biases in Europe, don't lose sight of the fact that the Brits tend to be a bit snobbish.
It can be amusing, but it is very real. I lived there 18 months, and I'm descended from Brits, so I feel qualified to comment on it.

 

[simone]

With regard to "culture differences and biases in Europe, don't lose sight of the fact that the Brits tend to be a bit snobbish.
It can be amusing, but it is very real. I lived there 18 months, and I'm descended from Brits, so I feel qualified to comment on it.

Yeah they generally are, as also my fellow countrymen. I like well refinished guns but for hunting i reqlly don't care. A hunting rifle is like a hammer or an hatchet.. it's a tool, it must work well and be durable. If you start talking about collectables it's another story but i think that in the 650-1000 usd range (850-1300 euros range since guns here cost much more on average) you can find rifles to be reliable, accurate and durable. Of course you are sacrificing a lot of cosmetics and maybe also features but i definitely don't think someone has to spend 2k for a good solid hunting rifle. I have always seen bergaras as just that, a bit agricultural maybe in comparison to more refined rifles like the german produced ones but they work very well. And I don't baby them. This is my experience at least, that's why it sounds weird to hear extremely negative comments on the overall quality of the rifles

 

[billflangjr813]

Pretty much. I also don't like how much slop they seem to have. When you pull the bolt all the way back, the ones I've used have a significant amount of play in the bolt. Once the bolt is closed it seems nice and tight, so clearly it doesn't matter too much, but it just screams "cheap" to me. Like $0.99 doorknobs, they work fine but the moment you touch them you can tell they were made for pennies on the dollar. My browning made Winchester 70 is in the same price range as the b14 but feels significantly better in the hands. Again it's just a preference, but the Bergaras just feel very cheap in the hands to me compared to others in the same price range. Even the savage axis feels better than the few Bergaras I've handled, maybe some are better than others though. But if that's the case that means they have some serious quality variance.

Been in the construction business all my life. Never seen a $.99 door knob.!! LOL

 

[DuckHunt]

I had one a few years ago... will not have another. The base of my brass would pick expansion groves for about 1/4" long running vertical with the brass. Sent an email about it and the problem with reloading brass brass again and was told if I reload it will void the warranty on the rifle. "Well, bye."

 

[Spoonbill]

Today i was involved in a conversation on a british hunting forum. It was a purely recreational topic: the most overrated hunting rifles on the market. At some point people started bashing remington as usual until a guy, who seem to be a pretty famous custom rifle builder in the UK, said that bergaras are so bad he even refuses to work on them if a customer wanna use one for a project. Someone else suddenly said "Reports are dodgy Quality control, wildly variable accuracy, poor metal quality. A couple of well known riflesmiths I know (one may or may not post on here a bit) refuse to use components-one stating he "wouldn't grow tomatoes up one".

I never heard anything this extreme. Of course, multiple members popped up reinforcing what this smith said, even saying that most gunsmiths and custom rifles builder the UK refuse to work with these rifles. Someone said Bergaras have a very bad reputation and I shouldn't be surprised About what i was reading.

I am wondering if this phenomenon, which i am really doubtful exists, especially to the extent some guys stated on that forum, exists in the US. I should add that i wrote in that forum a few months ago, before purchasing my last rifle, to ask about bergaras and the general consensus was positive even there (?).

my experience with b14s is limited to a handful of rifles and was great for what is worth

Thanks!!

My twist on this is 1) The Brits really dont have an affordable rifle for the common man. 2) My B-14 BPR is probably second to my Seekins Bravo. Never has an issue with the Bergara. 3) If there were such systemic issues with the QA/Q, the market would have responded with a thumbs down and sales would plummet.