UK gunsmiths and custom rifle builders refusing to work on Bergara rifles because of their poor quality

[4th_point]

Someone else suddenly said "Reports are dodgy Quality control, wildly variable accuracy, poor metal quality.

I don't know how good QA/QC is at Bergara but the comment about poor metal quality might be related to the cast bolt shroud that was used a few years ago.

You can find reports of it at different forums. And some claims of poor customer service. My friend saw one fail during a group hunt and loaned his backup rifle to his friend. The Bergara was dead in the water.

The cast shroud design has been replaced. I have not heard of any failures since.

And this is pure speculation but there still exist culture differences and biases in Europe, and maybe more so with older generations.

For example I know people there that still resent Germans. So some people in the UK may look down at a product made by Bergara in Spain.

I don't think Spain has ever had the reputation of being a leader in advanced design and manufacturing so people in the UK may feel that they make an inferior product.

I don't have any interest in Bergara rifles but have one of their barrels on a different brand of factory rifle. Bergara supposedly supplies a lot barrels to other rifle manufacturers.

 

[osok-1k]

Even custom actions vary, I have a Curtis Axiom which was DLC coated when I got from Curtis. It was smooth and cycled well, correct free play on lockup, (bolt was a little loose to me until lockup) everything good until I left it in my safe a few months after my build was complete and the raceways had begun to rust, the bolt has very little DLC finish left. I ended up removing the barrel and Cerakoted the receiver, should have done the bolt too but I thought it would last longer. In all honesty I did not contact Curtis and ask them about the DLC process, I just took care of it. I bought it just before Joel started Terminus and was still working with Curtis. After I learned about a few modifications to the design I would have bought a Terminus. I learned about DLC from a local race engine builder (Nicken's Brothers) who showed me some wrist pins from a pro stock engine he was prepping which are DLC coated. I couldn't tell the difference between a new pin and one from a thousand horsepower engine with about fifteen runs. The load on those pins at nine thousand RPM is more than most can imagine and they didn't wear. All that to say that proper DLC coating will definitely last, won't rust and in a bolt action receiver, one should not be able to see wear for a very long time.

My Kelbly Atlas Tactical is great, I have no complaints, I like the ejector design. My Pierce single shot is great as well. I just bought my fist Tikka Ember in 308, it's smooth cycling but more bolt play than I like, the plastic bolt knob has a very uncomfortable casting nub in just the wrong place so I'm upgrading a few components to hopefully make it better. It shot ok on my first range trip without the break, put the break on and it was terribly inaccurate, four inches right of my first group and 3" spread. I was shooting Petersen 168 match factory loaded ammo which shoots well (.5) in my other 308 rifles.

My unintended lengthy comment is really just to say that factory built rifles can shoot really well for certain applications like hunting at fairly close (under 400) ranges and hunting accuracy is very different than match or tactical LE requirements. All of the major manufacturers are a compromise, custom rifles should be better but commonly not by much for the cost. As long as it's safe, cycles correctly and is accurate enough for the intended purpose, spend more on glass.

 

[osok-1k]

One more aside, if you shop at a gun store that has several guns in the model and caliber you want, ask to look at them and see if one is noticeably better in how the bolt runs, locks up etc.

 

[Grey Goast]

This is not just in the UK here in the United States we have gunsmiths. that will charge you a higher labor price depending on the make and model of the rifle and manufacturing date and some models they won't work on at all. because of cheap designs and poor quality in material. This I learned from my Gunsmiths here in Alabama. The UK and Bergara's are no different than a few models in the United States.

 

[simone]

I don't know how good QA/QC is at Bergara but the comment about poor metal quality might be related to the cast bolt shroud that was used a few years ago.

You can find reports of it at different forums. And some claims of poor customer service. My friend saw one fail during a group hunt and loaned his backup rifle to his friend. The Bergara was dead in the water.

The cast shroud design has been replaced. I have not heard of any failures since.

And this is pure speculation but there still exist culture differences and biases in Europe, and maybe more so with older generations.

For example I know people there that still resent Germans. So some people in the UK may look down at a product made by Bergara in Spain.

I don't think Spain has ever had the reputation of being a leader in advanced design and manufacturing so people in the UK may feel that they make an inferior product.

I don't have any interest in Bergara rifles but have one of their barrels on a different brand of factory rifle. Bergara supposedly supplies a lot barrels to other rifle manufacturers.

For sure if the same exact rifles were made in Germany

Even custom actions vary, I have a Curtis Axiom which was DLC coated when I got from Curtis. It was smooth and cycled well, correct free play on lockup, (bolt was a little loose to me until lockup) everything good until I left it in my safe a few months after my build was complete and the raceways had begun to rust, the bolt has very little DLC finish left. I ended up removing the barrel and Cerakoted the receiver, should have done the bolt too but I thought it would last longer. In all honesty I did not contact Curtis and ask them about the DLC process, I just took care of it. I bought it just before Joel started Terminus and was still working with Curtis. After I learned about a few modifications to the design I would have bought a Terminus. I learned about DLC from a local race engine builder (Nicken's Brothers) who showed me some wrist pins from a pro stock engine he was prepping which are DLC coated. I couldn't tell the difference between a new pin and one from a thousand horsepower engine with about fifteen runs. The load on those pins at nine thousand RPM is more than most can imagine and they didn't wear. All that to say that proper DLC coating will definitely last, won't rust and in a bolt action receiver, one should not be able to see wear for a very long time.

My Kelbly Atlas Tactical is great, I have no complaints, I like the ejector design. My Pierce single shot is great as well. I just bought my fist Tikka Ember in 308, it's smooth cycling but more bolt play than I like, the plastic bolt knob has a very uncomfortable casting nub in just the wrong place so I'm upgrading a few components to hopefully make it better. It shot ok on my first range trip without the break, put the break on and it was terribly inaccurate, four inches right of my first group and 3" spread. I was shooting Petersen 168 match factory loaded ammo which shoots well (.5) in my other 308 rifles.

My unintended lengthy comment is really just to say that factory built rifles can shoot really well for certain applications like hunting at fairly close (under 400) ranges and hunting accuracy is very different than match or tactical LE requirements. All of the major manufacturers are a compromise, custom rifles should be better but commonly not by much for the cost. As long as it's safe, cycles correctly and is accurate enough for the intended purpose, spend more on glass.

I agree 100% and that's why comments like "it's trash, it's not even good as a stick to make tomatoes grow straight" are nonsense. Does rifles work unless you get a lemon? If so and if the materials are good enough to whithtrand heavy field use, i am ok with it. If the rifle is not accurate enough or the action doesn't cycle reliably, i understand the complaints. My two bergaras b14 hunter shoot both better than half MOA with the right load, one of the two shoots 0.25 all day with geco softpoint and out of maybe more than 1000 rounds i have never had a single
Jam, also in the field. I know a sample of two is not enough but I mean, it would make tomatoes grow pretty straight

 

[simone]

One more aside, if you shop at a gun store that has several guns in the model and caliber you want, ask to look at them and see if one is noticeably better in how the bolt runs, locks up etc.

That's also something i don't get. I tried ALL hunting bolt action models available in Italy in 2023 at the EOS gun show. I really can't figure out how that member above here can say that a bergara bolt feels like trash compared to a savage one. I don't really understand. I tried multiple savages and multiple bergaras and i feel a big, big difference in favour of the latter as far as bolt operations! Go figure. Anyway, that's a good idea but you know when you read someone who apparently has a huge experience with rifles like a custom rifle builder saying that a company is so bad he won't even ever work on a rifle made by it and your humble opinion is exactly the opposite, you start wondering.

 

[Rifleman97]

That's also something i don't get. I tried ALL hunting bolt action models available in Italy in 2023 at the EOS gun show. I really can't figure out how that member above here can say that a bergara bolt feels like trash compared to a savage one. I don't really understand. I tried multiple savages and multiple bergaras and i feel a big, big difference in favour of the latter as far as bolt operations! Go figure. Anyway, that's a good idea but you know when you read someone who apparently has a huge experience with rifles like a custom rifle builder saying that a company is so bad he won't even ever work on a rifle made by it and your humble opinion is exactly the opposite, you start wondering.

My hypothesis after reading the comment about the bolt shroud design being changed could be the cause. The bolt fitting loose could've been a poor receiver design that was fixed. The guns I've used were made before the change, so new models could be better. I'm curious now, so I'm going to stop in to a dealer and cycle a few Bergara actions and see if they feel drastically different than the ones I've shot before, I'll leave a comment later today on my findings.

 

[simone]

The UK and Bergara's are no different than a few models in the United States.

What;do you mean?

 

[capod28]

Have a Bergara HMR Pro in 300PRC. Couldn't be happier with it. Has consistently (5 groups @ 3 shots) shot in .4's at 100 yds. Bolt is not as smooth as my Tikka 6.5CM, but also is a little less sloppy. FWIW...

 

[asd9055]

The newest rifle I own is an M70 made in S.C. in 2013. I own a few WBY made 2012 and before and Winchester made in the 1990's. All those are very well made. No money to buy anything new, and it appears I am not missing much.

 

[Rifleman97]

Update, just got back from the local gun shop. They only had 2 bergaras in stock, both 6.5 creed b14. Neither had the insane play that the earlier models I've shot had. So that's a big improvement. However neither of their actions felt really nice, they felt a bit gritty during the stroke. The bolt lift was solid, but the stroke was pretty gritty, still felt cheap. About the same as a savage, maybe a touch better since the bolt felt heftier, but the grit was similar. One was better than the other. So I rescind my comment about the bolts having a ton of play, but still neither felt as nice as my ≈2016 Winchester M70, which was in the same $700-1000 price point

 

[Dean2]

I see you are still chasing the same rabbit. This is what I told you back in May in a series of PMs. How many people do you have to hear it from before you give it credence. No one siad EVERY Bergara is a problem, just that there are a lot that are.

Hello, i saw a post of yours, one of the few posts criticizing bergara rifles that seem to be backed up by some real word experience on a sample that wasn't of just one rifle. I have a b14 hunter and i am looking to buy another one in 308 to put it in an aftermarket stock. As far as i know the rifles are fairly well built, reliable in cycling and usually very accurate. I have very rarely seen complaints from owners, i have heard the typical tikka supporters mocking bergara such as many other rifle brands of course, but i don't give much importance to the herd ideas BS you see very often on forums. You said 20% of bergara b14 is defective in some way, can yiu expand on this? And also why you say they are not well put togheter?

Thanks and greetings from Italy
Simone
This is what I previously wrote. I stand by it. For the money, there are a lot of other quality choices to start from. Spending $3,000 for a standard factory action and barrel to put in another stock makes no sense to me. Buy a good action, custom barrel, trigger and stock and you will be at the start price of the Bergara. Up to you, but with all the custom actions and barrels available I would check them out.

Here is an high quality option that can be done for the initial purchase cost of the Bergara.
They will build you a custom rifle, with a cut rifle, hand lapped barrel, with trigger and stock of your choice, to your specifications for about 3,000 U.S. Let me know how you make out.

KS Arms Actions — K.S. ARMS LTD

Canadian made custom actions for competition and hunting use. Get the perfect action for your hunting experience or PRS, F-class, benchrest or other style of competition.

www.ksarms.com

I have worked on quite a few Bergara and they are prone to multiple defects. In order, bedding is bad, glass or pillar bed to fix, Chamber issues, needs to go back for new barrel. The chamber issues are sometimes so bad you can actually see them on the once fired cases and or they show up in measuring the various critical points. Also check to see it has enough throat, short throated chambers have been an issue too. Crown issues and sundry feeding issues round out the common defects. Unfortunately the track record of the warranty depot for fixing these issues properly is very poor and Bergara won't pay for a qualified smith to fix them locally. The good news is, except for the ones with poorly made chambers, once bedded and crowned most of them shot really good. The feeding issues are usually not that hard to repair.

My personal opinion after experience with them and the very poor customer support, there are much better rifles in the same price range.

 

[cdherman]

Update, just got back from the local gun shop. They only had 2 bergaras in stock, both 6.5 creed b14. Neither had the insane play that the earlier models I've shot had. So that's a big improvement. However neither of their actions felt really nice, they felt a bit gritty during the stroke. The bolt lift was solid, but the stroke was pretty gritty, still felt cheap. About the same as a savage, maybe a touch better since the bolt felt heftier, but the grit was similar. One was better than the other. So I rescind my comment about the bolts having a ton of play, but still neither felt as nice as my ≈2016 Winchester M70, which was in the same $700-1000 price point

Lemme ask you this: Did your gun shop allow you to cycle live ammunition through the action? I am betting not.

This WHOLE DARN THREAD seems to fail to mention this reality. How an action feels depends a lot on its feed of live ammo. A Tikka can feel sloppy till its LOADED and then its feels tighter, IMO.

How it feels dry is pretty much worthless, since that's not what you are going do with it, now are you?

 

[bergara0256]

I have several bergara. One I have even put well over 1,000 rounds through, never had it fail, it has always fired. All of the 5 bergaras I own, all have shot better than the 1MOA guarantee. One, even shot .25moa out of the box with several factory ammo. All guns shot better than .6moa, with 5 shot groups.

I did have an issue with one of them failing to fire, because of firing pin issues. I called up bergara, and they had it fixed and shipped back to me in 2 weeks time. They also cleaned the gun. I can't say I've had the same luck with other factory rifles. They also paid the shipping both ways. Which, I've had an issue with another factory rifle that wanted me to pay the shipping. With a little back and forth and some convenience, I finally got that manufactured to pay the shipping. Only to ship it back with the same issues I sent it to them with.

All that being said, they're no where near as nice as my custom rifles I own. Of course, the bergara rifles are literally half the cost of one of my custom actions. Just the action, not the whole custom rifle.
I can say, I would trust taking a beregara rifle hunting.

Now, the question I have to all of you, what's the expectation of a 700-1,000 rifle? I don't expect it to be anywhere near as nice as one of my custom rifle. I also, don't expect it to shot less than the 1 MOA guarantee they clams the gun to have, but all have shot better then 1MOA. And they all have fired every time I pull the trigger. No, they don't cycle as nice as a custom action, and if they did why would we need a gunsmith?

I'm not claiming they're the best rifle out there for a factory option, but they do shoot and shoot well.