UK gunsmiths and custom rifle builders refusing to work on Bergara rifles because of their poor quality

[Huntz]

I have had two B 14s.They both had great triggers. Mucho sucked accuracy wise. Would not make a pimple on a Tikka T3x stock.

 

[WYMIKE]

My experience with B14's is that I saw very small spot bedding in the stock that possibly lead to poorer MOA with shooting a quality ammunition. Barrels were carefully broke in using shoot/clean for 10 rounds. The 6.5 Creedmoor shot 3/4 MOA to 800 yards and the .300 Win Mag and 300 PRC were about 2 1/2 MOA to 600 yards and I never bothered to shoot them any father. I used Hornady factory ammo and handloads in the .30 cals and just could not get the accuracy and precision needed to hunt with at longer ranges than 200 yards.

 

[simone]

My friends rifle shoots very well, but he has to keep an oily rag to wipe it down after handling it because it tends to rust rather quickly.

I used mine in every possible qeather, from snow storms to very heavy rain and I never cleaned it differenty than any other rifle i own. I don't know man, maybe when your buddy's rifle was builded they used a different finish. Now all bergara rifles are cherakoted anyway

 

[simone]

I only have one bergara, and it is a crazy accurate rimfire rifle, and have only handled a couple others casually. My opinion is that we as a gun community tend to focus on some of the craziest things to determine what makes a firearm good and what makes a firearm bad. We never seem to take the time to qualify what makes something junk, and what makes it great.

While a very smooth action feels good in hand to some, what does it really matter or represent in the grand scheme? I've never handled a savage that didn't feel like a sloppy clunky mess, but In all my years of dealing with Savage rifles, I have never met a savage that wasn't sub moa. Most sub 3/4 moa.

If someone is going to claim that something is junk....please offer some statistical data that supports this. Kinda like the transmissions in 2014 to 2017 GM full size trucks.....statistically, there is more than a 40% chance that they are going to prematurely fail. It's a known thing.

If we are going to continue to be a wealth of good information, we need to publish qualified, accurate, non-biased feedback. Not conjecture or self-serving opinions.

To be clear, this post is not aimed at anyone or any post in particular, just an opinion from an everyday observer.

And i agree 100%. If a rifle doesn't look good with a borescope who cares if it works well

 

[simone]

This original post sounds like a terminal case of internetitis, which tends to be rife on shooting forums, auto forums, DIY forums etc etc. in fact ALL hobby forums.
I saw a few posts on here that I would strongly disagree with the first was brits look down their snobbish noses at spanish guns, this just isn't so and the great bulk of the Spanish gunmakers produce fine guns marketed as their own by the respected "old names" in the british gunmaking industry. As a brit, I've owned many spanish guns from the humble to the rangetoppers and they've all performed well, only one had an issue which resulted in the importer changing the gun for another one.
The second issue was that there was no british gun built for "the common man" , BSA fulfilled this role for many years, of course they aren't in the gunmaking business any more as the level of investment necessary to compete in a tiny home market just isn't justifiable at which point it's worth returning to the OP and pointing out a few issues that british gunsmiths face that probably aren't mirrored elsewhere, notably the proofing system.
In the UK it's illegal for dealer to sell a firearm that is either unproofed or has been altered in some of the areas that have been previously proofed. This isn't for private sales, where the caveat emptor rule works.
After a smith has made or altered a gun he has to submit it for proof at one of the government sanctioned independent proof houses.
AFAIK, the first thing that occurs is the proof master has the gun inspected to ensure it's fit to be proofed. A pile of rust and chippings in a rifle barrel isn't the thing he will be looking for and there is every possibility that such a gun would fall at this first hurdle.
The proof test consists of firing a cartridge that will generate a 20% pressure overload over the CIP specification for the cartridge in question "without (the firearm) sustaining visible or measurable changes". I have to say that I understand the pressure spike is very much cartridge dependent ie if the gun has a tight bore very short lead in to the rifling and a tight chamber then it's possible the pressure spike will be more than the 20%. Either way, if the gun passes it's proof the cartridge it's chambered for and service pressure is stamped on the barrel as is the bore dimension in some cases; all the components subject to pressure are stamped with the proofhouse mark and the customer can buy the gun secure in the knowledge that it won't blow up in his face straight away.
All new guns imported into the UK have to be proofed unless the manufacturer is governed by the reciprocal arrangement CIP rules, which is why Spanish guns can be freely imported without proof testing but guns made in the USA have to undergo proof testing.
So you can see why any gunmaker or gunsmith worth his salt will be reluctant to undertake work on components that have a checkered or mottled reputation as right up until the proof test is passed it's built at his risk ie if it blows up at proof the gunsmith foots the bill.
With regard to the tomato issue, at some of the gardening competitions the size of the tomatoes shown rivals the speculated size of Tom Jones' cojones so you'd want a pretty sturdy tomato peg .
One issue that was raised were comments by several posters one or two saying the gun shot 1/3 or 1/2 moa straight from the factory and another one saying that it took 100 rounds to break the barrel in wt f is that? sounds like that's an attack of internetitis to me.
Just a snobby brit's 0.02c worth.

Very interwsting reply, thanks. Man as far as accuracy goes i can only speak for what i see every single time i go hunting or at the range with my b14s. Today this was for testing zero at 200 meters, in the other pic you can see a almost one sized hole 3 shots group at 100 meters. This is with 170 gr sp geco ammo from the 308 b14 hunter i am gonna go hunting tomorrow

 

[bergara0256]

This original post sounds like a terminal case of internetitis, which tends to be rife on shooting forums, auto forums, DIY forums etc etc. in fact ALL hobby forums.
I saw a few posts on here that I would strongly disagree with the first was brits look down their snobbish noses at spanish guns, this just isn't so and the great bulk of the Spanish gunmakers produce fine guns marketed as their own by the respected "old names" in the british gunmaking industry. As a brit, I've owned many spanish guns from the humble to the rangetoppers and they've all performed well, only one had an issue which resulted in the importer changing the gun for another one.
The second issue was that there was no british gun built for "the common man" , BSA fulfilled this role for many years, of course they aren't in the gunmaking business any more as the level of investment necessary to compete in a tiny home market just isn't justifiable at which point it's worth returning to the OP and pointing out a few issues that british gunsmiths face that probably aren't mirrored elsewhere, notably the proofing system.
In the UK it's illegal for dealer to sell a firearm that is either unproofed or has been altered in some of the areas that have been previously proofed. This isn't for private sales, where the caveat emptor rule works.
After a smith has made or altered a gun he has to submit it for proof at one of the government sanctioned independent proof houses.
AFAIK, the first thing that occurs is the proof master has the gun inspected to ensure it's fit to be proofed. A pile of rust and chippings in a rifle barrel isn't the thing he will be looking for and there is every possibility that such a gun would fall at this first hurdle.
The proof test consists of firing a cartridge that will generate a 20% pressure overload over the CIP specification for the cartridge in question "without (the firearm) sustaining visible or measurable changes". I have to say that I understand the pressure spike is very much cartridge dependent ie if the gun has a tight bore very short lead in to the rifling and a tight chamber then it's possible the pressure spike will be more than the 20%. Either way, if the gun passes it's proof the cartridge it's chambered for and service pressure is stamped on the barrel as is the bore dimension in some cases; all the components subject to pressure are stamped with the proofhouse mark and the customer can buy the gun secure in the knowledge that it won't blow up in his face straight away.
All new guns imported into the UK have to be proofed unless the manufacturer is governed by the reciprocal arrangement CIP rules, which is why Spanish guns can be freely imported without proof testing but guns made in the USA have to undergo proof testing.
So you can see why any gunmaker or gunsmith worth his salt will be reluctant to undertake work on components that have a checkered or mottled reputation as right up until the proof test is passed it's built at his risk ie if it blows up at proof the gunsmith foots the bill.
With regard to the tomato issue, at some of the gardening competitions the size of the tomatoes shown rivals the speculated size of Tom Jones' cojones so you'd want a pretty sturdy tomato peg .
One issue that was raised were comments by several posters one or two saying the gun shot 1/3 or 1/2 moa straight from the factory and another one saying that it took 100 rounds to break the barrel in wt f is that? sounds like that's an attack of internetitis to me.
Just a snobby brit's 0.02c worth.

I don't blame you for being a skeptic of my post. So, I've attached some photos for you.

Hope everyone has a safe and happy fourth! Please keep all your fingers and toes.

 

[WYMIKE]

Bergara 0256 that is excellent shooting with Bergara B14 rifles. Please share with everyone the ammunition used to make those excellent groups as it does not seen on the targets. Thanks in advance.

 

[Vinny83]

With regard to "culture differences and biases in Europe, don't lose sight of the fact that the Brits tend to be a bit snobbish.
It can be amusing, but it is very real. I lived there 18 months, and I'm descended from Brits, so I feel qualified to comment on it.

I only hope you had the testicular fortitude to share this ignorant point of view while you were over there.

 

[bergara0256]

Ok, this is the last post I'm doing on this topic.
When I purchased the rifle, I did a little research on what shot the best out of there rifles (posted the link that I used). All factory ammo that I used will be on there.

Again, believe it or not.

Accuracy Testing - Bergara USA

Accuracy Testing

www.bergara.online

 

[simone]

Ok, this is the last post I'm doing on this topic.
When I purchased the rifle, I did a little research on what shot the best out of there rifles (posted the link that I used). All factory ammo that I used will be on there.

Again, believe it or not.

Accuracy Testing - Bergara USA

Accuracy Testing

www.bergara.online

I know it was supposed to be your last post but.. what about 308 with 178 grains eldx?

 

[simone]

I only hope you had the testicular fortitude to share this ignorant point of view while you were over there.

Applying generalizations to a specific situation or person doesn't have any value but i confirm that in italian hunting forums (only in forums) people are super snobbish, no comparison with LRH. There are groups of people with huge bias on many topics (308 is called 308 flobert because of its not so flat trajectory and shouldn't be used for hunting because it's a military round; if in soecific conditions younwant the animal to drop right there and you aim at the shoulder instead of at the typical traditional hunting blattschuss your license should be revoked, the only acceptable rifles are german ones and if you don't have a blaser you are an idiot, etc.. i could go on for two pages).
I can say italian hunting forums are exceptionally snobbish generally but, again, you can't apply this to every single user

 

[bergara0256]

I don't know, I got mine to shoot using 168gr Serra match king factory ammo. I just stopped trying others because I was happy with the result.

For hand loads, I shot 155L- scenar IMR 3031 41gr.

270 I shoot 145 eldx factory ammo.

6.5 creed I 140 ELDM for factory ammo. Then hand loads I would use the same bullet with IMR4350 39.5gr.

300 winmag I would use 178gr match ammo, then Switch to sigsauer ammo 180gr elite hunter.

22 I would use ELY match ammo.

 

[Upsidedownjack]

I don't know, I got mine to shoot using 168gr Serra match king factory ammo. I just stopped trying others because I was happy with the result.

For hand loads, I shot 155L- scenar IMR 3031 41gr.

270 I shoot 145 eldx factory ammo.

6.5 creed I 140 ELDM for factory ammo. Then hand loads I would use the same bullet with IMR4350 39.5gr.

300 winmag I would use 178gr match ammo, then Switch to sigsauer ammo 180gr elite hunter.

22 I would use ELY match ammo.

As said (by me) before, I also shoot a 300 WM. Bargara HMR -PRO RE LOAD MY OWN AND MY RIFLE SHOOTS VERY NICELY 79.5 Gr (H-1000) 180 Gr spbt (SST) LRM primers, and Mixed Brass. 50 yd small bore,

reduced for shooting @50 ft. Shot @ 100 yds! Just breaking in and Under 100 Rds out of the Rifle! Used the Same load in a Winchester 70 for years and Killed Many Elk from less than 100 yds out to somewhere around 800+/- . The Baurgra is (for me) the better shooting handleing firearm! One win's, some, and others Lose some!

 

[Rflshootr]

I guess what all this boils down to, is ice cream. Some people like vanilla, some chocolate, and I prefer chocolate chip. That's why they make many different flavors.