I ha e very similar results with 140 Berger and RL26. 2992 with a SD just below 3
Ugly extreme spread........now what ?
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MoaFlat
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End of the box avg was 6
MNbogboy
Well-Known Member
Looks to be shooting very good. My question concerns your chrono.
I may haves missed it, what type of chrono? Magspeed, labradar or optical?
If optical it may be responsible for the wild es/sd....cloud / ambient light changes could easily cause this.
If other type than carry on...
Good luck,
Randy
Are you looking for good ES too early. Yes you are.
Are you shooting your barrel too hot. Yes you are. You need to let your barrel cool between shots after the first two or three. Especially with sporter contours. I personally think you should focus on barrel temp much more than the time a cartridge is in the chamber.
Are you expecting too much with new unfired brass. Yes you are.
Are you using the right powder. H4350 will probably be better.
Frankly, slow down. Take your time and enjoy the journey. Reading into your note, I think your new chrony has become a distraction. They are awesome devices, but they are only another tool. Don't let what your new chrony tells you get in the way of what you learned before you got it.
The barrel is a sendaro profile, so not spindly, but not a HEAVY barrel. I agree whole heartedly on the slow it down thing. Looking at my velocities compared to how quickly I shot, I really think the load will settle down into good ES strings as is, once the brass is fire formed, barrel gets a few more rounds down the pipe, and if I SLOW DOWN. The first 5 shots in that string had an SD less that 7 .
I'm just going to shoot the 28 rounds I have loaded at different seating depths to let the barrel settle down some more, then play with some Sierra game changers I picked up, mainly just to work the rest of my brass and see if SGCs have promise as another projectile later on. Then I can run the brass through my die to bump the shoulder, trim them, set the neck tension at. 003, instead of the .005 its been, weight sort, and get down to some serious ladder work on the RL16. Only after that will I take another shot (pun intended) at the sd/es and report back with results.
THANKS AGAIN TO ALL THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED !! Its much appreciated.
I just ran the numbers and your standard deviation for the string is 23.78fps. That's actually pretty good. I'm not sure what you are concerned about.Finally bought a chrono to get serious about finding a 500yd deer load for my field rifle. THIS IS ON NEW BRASS . I found a load that shoots great at 100yds considering I'm just fire forming brass and making sure the barrel is broke in right. This string is shots 67 to 77 on a new barrel. Barrel has not copper fouled since round count 20.
Load is 41.8gns of RL16 behind a Berger 130 vld with cci br large rifle primers and Peterson LRP brass (new/unfired). Barrel was cleaned before this string was fired.
2805
2795
2787
2802
2798
2776
2827
2808
2814
2862
The barrel was getting pretty warm on the last 3 shots, but I didnt let any rounds cook in the chamber more than the time it took to chamber , square up in the graph window and squeeze the shot.
Am I looking for good ES too early in the process? Would you hunt for a better load, or relax and play with seating depths till I get the rest of this brass once fired, bumped, and weight sorted ? Oh, its s 6.5 creedmoor
MNbogboy
Well-Known Member
Not to argue but usually a good load fully developed will have an SD in the single digits and ES in the teens. Just my observations and goals.
Mc Fraser
Well-Known Member
Very good comment.
I have a RCBS Lite Chargemaster that is 0.01g or 0.1gr accurate. I also have a scale that is 0.001g or 0.01gr accurate and I was playing with some 74gr loads. I can tell you that the RCBS can be anywhere between 73.91 to 74.09gr and it won't tell you if you're under or over. I also found that is not very sensitive, for example if it's set for 74gr and it drops 74.08, then after it beeps and it's done trickle if one pebble drops it won't "feel" it. One H1000 pebble is 0.04gr. So you want 74gr and you can get 74.12 without even knowing; that difference will give you double digit ES. When you measure ES and deviation accurate weight has very much weight on your results.
I have a RCBS Lite Chargemaster that is 0.01g or 0.1gr accurate. I also have a scale that is 0.001g or 0.01gr accurate and I was playing with some 74gr loads. I can tell you that the RCBS can be anywhere between 73.91 to 74.09gr and it won't tell you if you're under or over. I also found that is not very sensitive, for example if it's set for 74gr and it drops 74.08, then after it beeps and it's done trickle if one pebble drops it won't "feel" it. One H1000 pebble is 0.04gr. So you want 74gr and you can get 74.12 without even knowing; that difference will give you double digit ES. When you measure ES and deviation accurate weight has very much weight on your results.
WiscGunner
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Very good point on scale accuracy but this is exactly why we pick velocity nodes. When a node is .3 wide or more the +/- .1 gr accuracy of the scale has almost no affect on velocity. If your load is not chosen in a node then yes, your charge weight MUST be exact everytime.
There is absolutely no reason for the OP to go down rabbit holes suitable for benchrest competition when doing practical shooting, including hunting, as it just won't make any difference. One just need to run the numbers in WEZ or short hand to see what will work for the intended purpose. Example: 8" vital zone means 1moa groups in all positions/conditions is good for 800yards. Does the position/condition or ES cause the group to grow beyond that. Simple to run the numbers in an ballistic app if WEZ isn't available.
Some good reading on what really matters for hitting targets in the field.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/04/18/how-much-does-sd-matter/
I didn't read the entire thread but what primers are you using? My ES numbers on all my guns cut in half or better using magnum primers. Second thing is load density. The closer to 100% or more the better. I like compressed loads if I can get them and still use all the powder. You don't want air pockets in your powder charge. The size, shape and location of the air pockets can really open up ES numbers.
Using CCI BR2s. My load density is pretty good, coming up to about the datum line w 41.8gns. That's with no attempt to pack it in the case other than slow pouring into the funnel. We will see what the ladder test says it needs once I get some more shots through it. Book says it will go to 44gn max. It would take some serious compression to get that much in my Peterson cases !
In the context of the OP's new barrel (<100rnds) and brass I still think its a good SD or at least a good start.
Finally bought a chrono to get serious about finding a 500yd deer load for my field rifle. THIS IS ON NEW BRASS . I found a load that shoots great at 100yds considering I'm just fire forming brass and making sure the barrel is broke in right. This string is shots 67 to 77 on a new barrel. Barrel has not copper fouled since round count 20.
Load is 41.8gns of RL16 behind a Berger 130 vld with cci br large rifle primers and Peterson LRP brass (new/unfired). Barrel was cleaned before this string was fired.
2805
2795
2787
2802
2798
2776
2827
2808
2814
2862
The barrel was getting pretty warm on the last 3 shots, but I didnt let any rounds cook in the chamber more than the time it took to chamber , square up in the graph window and squeeze the shot.
Am I looking for good ES too early in the process? Would you hunt for a better load, or relax and play with seating depths till I get the rest of this brass once fired, bumped, and weight sorted ? Oh, its s 6.5 creedmoor
provided you have consist reloading practices you might not be on a node or on the upper or lower end of it... try some three shot groups at 41.2, .4 or .6 and if 41.8 is not max try 42.0, .2, .4 and see if you get more consistent ES
also realize that even with an ES of 20 or even 30 fps at 500 yards you'll not even notice it on steel or hide I'd say even 40 fps won't be much
I shoot out to a mile plus here in Colorado on a regular basis and compete in PRS so I can understand you wanting single digit or low teen ES but at 600 yards or less 20/30 ES and a .5 ish 100 yard group is all you need.
just for comparison look at what the drop is in your shooting app between 2767 and 2805 at say 600 yards? its probably not even 2" and I bet you can't hold the 2" difference because your reticle stadia lines will block that much at that distance even moreso when you go even longer
I find that there are a lot of arm chair shooters in these forums and when they don't give advice with detailed explanation a lot of shooters start going down rabbit holes chasing shadows.
find a few solid knowledgable shooters in the forums and stick with them when seeking advice while gaining your own knowledge base but again make sure who you talk with is actually shooting at distance and has experience and not simply regurgitating what they've read
pm me if you have more questions
