Trying to decide on caliber

[Chrsm]

6.5 PRC

 

[FEENIX]

I have a 6.5prc for antelope and deer, next is to get an elk specific rifle. Looking at 300wsm, 280ai, or 7saum?? Thoughts?

Now that you have been overwhelmed with recommendations outside your parameter, what have you decided?

 

[Calvin45]

And that outfitter didn't understand ballistics and energy as I have pointed out over and over again. Your 6.5 PRC can shoot flatter and deliver more energy at 400 yards with less recoil than the .300 WSM with Retumbo and 156s. The .300 Win Mag can hang with it to the 400 yard mark and thats about it. Ditto for a .257 Weatherby or 25-06 AI with a fast twist, 133s, and the right handload. Now if the outfitter is recommending a .30 in a Weatherby or RUM he has a point. But the guy who listens to that advice and brings his .308, 30-06, .300 Win Mag will just fine but he will sacrifice energy real quick and sacrifice bullet drop from muzzle on with unneccessary recoil.

If the outfitter believes in particular bullet that he has seen that he likes or anticipates most shots under 300 yards then those calibers might have an advantage. But to say that a standard .30 offers anything at 400+ yards is just false. In fact, just the opposite is true. That is not to say they aren't perfectly adequate if that is what the hunter has or is comfortable with. The 30-06 is an awesome elk round. Its just that at 400 yards the .270 is much better. Dittos for the .300 WSM vs. the 6.5 PRC. They just aren't as good.

No disrespect but I'm gonna call this one. My one pet .300 win load (and the .300 prc does better with the bullet in question) is with a 225 hornady eld m. 2800 fps. For external ballistics there's not a 6.5 or .270 bullet out there with a .777 g1 bc. It's only a matter of time before this load overcomes any of them for external ballistics. As for terminal…I firmly believe actual projectile mass matters,
It's not just the math of sd + bc + impact velocity. I have a .270. I don't think it's a "better" elk round than a .30-06. And the 6.5 prc, in my opinion, is nothing even close to my .300 win mag.

 

[Calvin45]

I'm not sure what planet you're shooting a 6.5 prc and beating a 300 wm? You keep writing these novels maybe trying to convince folks but a 156 @ 3000 is not gonna beat a 215 @ 2880 in ft lbs out to 1000 yds?..Im sure I'll have qtr ton more punching power at 800 to 1000 yds. It can't do the damage that will occur at any range . I'd much rather get shot with needle going 4000 fps than a 58 cal 500 grain maxi ball going 1500 fps. Terminal ballistics 101. I love small calibers but there's a time and a place. Bigger holes are harder to plug. Bigger cal, more tissue damage. Elmer Keith proved this philosophy time and time again. Start shooting animals with 30 cal and see what happens. They die quickly. I shot a 25-06 for 20 years and killed some bull elk with it. No blood trails. That 120 grain partition went thru but sealed up lickety split. Not the case with 30 cal esp 338 or 35 whelen. I've done far more tracking on elk shot marginally with 6mm, 257, 6.5's then I care to remember. They are adequate but shot placement is more critical. 20 years of guiding and watching 100 of animals get killed shows the facts. The proof is in the pudding. BTW my daughter killed her elk last year with my 280 AI 175 elite hunter. One shot. Went 20 yds and tipped over. That rifle has a brake and kicks like 243. She shot the biggest caliber she could shoot well. Lastly I have a 6.5 Creed and 6.5 PRC. Excellent deers rifles. Dedicated elk rifle...not for me.

Maybe it's the same logic that I saw on a YouTube vid a while back explaining why the 6.5 creedmoor beats the .300 win mag as a long range hunting round . They were unashamedly comparing 147 eld ms in the creed with 180 super x power points in the win mag . (PS, I'll still take the win mag!)

 

[wyrshunter1]

No disrespect but I'm gonna call this one. My one pet .300 win load (and the .300 prc does better with the bullet in question) is with a 225 hornady eld m. 2800 fps. For external ballistics there's not a 6.5 or .270 bullet out there with a .777 g1 bc. It's only a matter of time before this load overcomes any of them for external ballistics. As for terminal…I firmly believe actual projectile mass matters,
It's not just the math of sd + bc + impact velocity. I have a .270. I don't think it's a "better" elk round than a .30-06. And the 6.5 prc, in my opinion, is nothing even close to my .300 win mag.

I will concede the .300 Mag in that load with the caveats of bullet drop, powder use, and recoil as a choice but that is going to be a great elk load with adequate ranging. No question on the .300 PRC, that has to be put more in the Weatherby category a bit. I will argue all day long on the 30-06 vs. .270. The ballistics and energy don't lie. The 30-06 has a slight starting advantage in energy that is reduced to nothing at about 200 yards in either the 150 vs. the 130 or the 180 vs. the 150. My experience with the .270 has been lights out with elk except for 1 bad shot I had to track and that was just 130s with probably subpar bullets compared to now. The 30-06 better is just legend going back to the 40-50s when the old timers were still poo-hooing the .30-06 over the old larger bores. Bullet performance is probably more important though in the lighter rounds.

You certainly can't go wrong with the 30-06 though. More than adequate on anything and its a good deer round too with 150s because it doesn't destroy meat. It just isn't as flat shooting and delivers less energy at medium to long distances.

 

[Rick Richard]

I have taken elk with 6.5 (SAUM), 270, 7mm, 30 cal and all have KILLED them. However, the unscientific observation of the amount of "bang flop" goes to the 30 cal. You do what you want, but I know what I will be carrying. Just saying.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Apples and Oranges!

 

[Calvin45]

I will concede the .300 Mag in that load with the caveats of bullet drop, powder use, and recoil as a choice but that is going to be a great elk load with adequate ranging. No question on the .300 PRC, that has to be put more in the Weatherby category a bit. I will argue all day long on the 30-06 vs. .270. The ballistics and energy don't lie. The 30-06 has a slight starting advantage in energy that is reduced to nothing at about 200 yards in either the 150 vs. the 130 or the 180 vs. the 150. My experience with the .270 has been lights out with elk except for 1 bad shot I had to track and that was just 130s with probably subpar bullets compared to now. The 30-06 better is just legend going back to the 40-50s when the old timers were still poo-hooing the .30-06 over the old larger bores. Bullet performance is probably more important though in the lighter rounds.

You certainly can't go wrong with the 30-06 though. More than adequate on anything and its a good deer round too with 150s because it doesn't destroy meat. It just isn't as flat shooting and delivers less energy at medium to long distances.

It'll destroy a lot less meat with the 180s…I've used both the -06 and .270…I'm just going to agree to disagree about some of this stuff. No issue with that on my end. Can't argue with anyone's own experience, keep doing what's been working

 

[JAYgs8163]

A 300 WSM with a 200 ELDX or Berger will do the job just fine. Load them up around to 2850 and just watch.

 

[FEENIX]

Apples and Oranges!

Yep, and too many of them in this thread.

 

[wyrshunter1]

Maybe it's the same logic that I saw on a YouTube vid a while back explaining why the 6.5 creedmoor beats the .300 win mag as a long range hunting round . They were unashamedly comparing 147 eld ms in the creed with 180 super x power points in the win mag . (PS, I'll still take the win mag!)

The creedmore is a joke. The .300 Win Mag outpaces the velocity to start by 300 fps. Do the same thing with a 156 in a PRC shooting the same starting velocity as the Win Mag and the PRC is scientifically the better option starting at 300 yards if you go by ME and velocity retention. Unless you believe in the myths of bigger bore diameter or slower but bigger, there is not any real question there. Now bullet construction is a different argument perhaps.

The same goes for the .270 vs. 30-06 in 150s and 180s or 130s and 150s. There is a reason for why it overtook the .30-06 in popularity. Dittos for the 7mm-08 vs. the .308. In heavier higher BC bullets there is an argument for the .300 Win Mag but it also involves recoil, drop, and efficiency questions. Thats not to say the .30s don't work great. They do and you can't go wrong with them.

For the record, I got a .300 Win Mag in a trade and am working up a 212 ELDX load with Retumbo so I'm not dissing it at all and it definitely has its place in my plans.

 

[FEENIX]

A 300 WSM with a 200 ELDX or Berger will do the job just fine. Load them up around to 2850 and just watch.

Yep, see #30.

 

[JAYgs8163]

This discussion now taking place deserves another thread as to not derail the OPs question. Back to the question he asked as he wants to build/buy another rifle. Answer his question!

"Looking at 300wsm, 280ai, or 7saum??" Which one?

 

[wyrshunter1]

This discussion now taking place deserves another thread as to not derail the OPs question. Back to the question he asked as he wants to build/buy another rifle. Answer his question!

"Looking at 300wsm, 280ai, or 7saum??" Which one?

.280 AI no question. I just got sidetracked by the idea of a .300 WSM and the fact he already has a 6.5 PRC that is an equal if not better option to that for his intended purpose. Get a .280 AI in fast twist and that is as versatile as it comes. Now a .270 AI with a fast twist....No I won't go there.