Trigger Question

[kraig]

Yup, that pretty much sums up my concerns. But I don't know if they apply to the Triggertech design.

I would LOVE to see a thorough analysis of the Triggertech design. There are a few considerations that might affect the results despite my misgivings. They are just musings not facts. First, I openly admit that:
1. I like the Triggertech triggers
2. I am concerned about lack of over travel.
3. I don't shoot well enough anymore to test the difference.

So here we go....

1. Does the bullet really leave the barrel before the trigger reaches the end of its travel? I don't know.
2. How much does pull weight affect this? I don't know.
3. Does the fact that pull force does not "release" on the Triggertech affect this? I don't know. What I mean by this is that my finger cannot tell when the sear drops because there is no change in force or movement between unfired and fired.
4. Does the momentum of the trigger finger really affect this? I don't know.
5. Does the roller on the trigger tech affect this? I don't know.
6. Does the apparent lack of creep or travel of any kind in the trigger tech affect this? I don't know.

Lots of questions, no answers.

Trigger Tech triggers have some over travel, I tried to measure it best I could on one of my "special" flat triggers. Assuming no creep as they claim I just used a pair of calipers, zeroed when it touched the trigger & measured where it stopped. On average mid trigger the over travel was .025 and at the bottom of the flat trigger it measured .040 (+/- lets say .002) How that compares to other triggers I'm not sure.

If you want to do the math on how long it takes the bullet to get out the end of the barrel vs. the time it takes a finger to travel .025"

v2 = vo2 + 2as

v is the muzzle velocity
vo is the initial velocity of the bullet, which is zero
a is the acceleration (or finger speed)
s is the barrel length (or trigger travel)

I can't do the math right now...I've got to go work for "the man"
Hope this helps???

 

[Greyfox]

Trigger Tech triggers have some over travel, I tried to measure it best I could on one of my "special" flat triggers. Assuming no creep as they claim I just used a pair of calipers, zeroed when it touched the trigger & measured where it stopped. On average mid trigger the over travel was .025 and at the bottom of the flat trigger it measured .040 (+/- lets say .002) How that compares to other triggers I'm not sure.

If you want to do the math on how long it takes the bullet to get out the end of the barrel vs. the time it takes a finger to travel .025"

v2 = vo2 + 2as

v is the muzzle velocity
vo is the initial velocity of the bullet, which is zero
a is the acceleration (or finger speed)
s is the barrel length (or trigger travel)

I can't do the math right now...I've got to go work for "the man"
Hope this helps???

Trigger Tech specs .015" of overtravel with their triggers.

 

[Susquatch]

Trigger Tech triggers have some over travel, I tried to measure it best I could on one of my "special" flat triggers. Assuming no creep as they claim I just used a pair of calipers, zeroed when it touched the trigger & measured where it stopped. On average mid trigger the over travel was .025 and at the bottom of the flat trigger it measured .040 (+/- lets say .002) How that compares to other triggers I'm not sure.

If you want to do the math on how long it takes the bullet to get out the end of the barrel vs. the time it takes a finger to travel .025"

v2 = vo2 + 2as

v is the muzzle velocity
vo is the initial velocity of the bullet, which is zero
a is the acceleration (or finger speed)
s is the barrel length (or trigger travel)

I can't do the math right now...I've got to go work for "the man"
Hope this helps???

I wish the math was that simple.

I think it's a lot more like:

Total time for bullet to leave barrel is trigger mechanism release time, plus firing pin time, plus primer ignition time, plus initial burn time before bullet starts moving, plus total time of bullet in barrel. The last one is actually the easiest one and it's not easy! But Quick Load makes it easy (assuming it's reasonably correct). The rest are anybody's guess but may be available somewhere. They will vary with trigger design, firing pin mass, firing pin spring force, primer size & brissance, powder, case volume, bullet mass, friction, etc etc etc All reasons my head hurts when I think about doing the math.

The other side of the equation is just as difficult and maybe worse. Time of finger travel is probably related to finger tissue density, finger and trigger mass, finger spring and damping factors, travel distance limit and pull weight (force) before and after release.

Frankly, it might be a whole lot easier to simply measure the times than it is to calculate them.

 

[kraig]

I wish the math was that simple.

I think it's a lot more like:

Total time for bullet to leave barrel is trigger mechanism release time, plus firing pin time, plus primer ignition time, plus initial burn time before bullet starts moving, plus total time of bullet in barrel. The last one is actually the easiest one and it's not easy! But Quick Load makes it easy (assuming it's reasonably correct). The rest are anybody's guess but may be available somewhere. They will vary with trigger design, firing pin mass, firing pin spring force, primer size & brissance, powder, case volume, bullet mass, friction, etc etc etc All reasons my head hurts when I think about doing the math.

The other side of the equation is just as difficult and maybe worse. Time of finger travel is probably related to finger tissue density, finger and trigger mass, finger spring and damping factors, travel distance limit and pull weight (force) before and after release.

Frankly, it might be a whole lot easier to simply measure the times than it is to calculate them.

Well you see what happens when you measure it. I'm with you but my wife probably wouldn't let me buy the equipment to measure.

 

[Susquatch]

Well you see what happens when you measure it. I'm with you but my wife probably wouldn't let me buy the equipment to measure.

You don't need to tell her EVERYTHING you know!

Just tell her you need it to keep track of your grand kids metabolism. Grandmothers have no sense of financial constraints when it comes to their grandbabies.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have 5 Timney Calvin Elite triggers, all set at 8-9oz. I have thousands of rounds with them. One rifle has over 4000 rounds on the trigger. No problems.

I have/had 4 different Timney 510/512s. All have a lot of rounds on them. All but one have been swapped to CEs now.

I have one Shilen Match @ 1lb 1oz. That is a s light as I could safely go with it. Only about 1300 rounds on it, but it is still going strong.

I have one Trigger Tech Diamond on my new 6CM. Set at 6oz. Only 211 rounds on it so far. Seems to shoot just fine.

I have shot behind several Bix N Andy. Very nice triggers. Not sure I could tell a difference between them or a CE/TT Diamond.

I have also shot behind numerous Jewell HVR (TS/TSBR). I really don't care for them. Too much creep. I hate that.

 

[xsn10s]

It depends on the smith. But having a smith do a trigger job takes some of the liability off of you. Even if you get a aftermarket trigger it might benefit a person to have a real experienced smith install it. "Safety is no accident". If you already understand this excuse me for bringing it up. It's a forum and we don't know the user's experience level.

 

[xsn10s]

I adjusted my triggers myself. My PSS has a factory trigger adjusted down to 2 lbs. It's been that way with a lot of rounds since 1991. My M700 22-250 is set the same way but not as many rounds. My Win M70 pushfeed is around 4 lbs. All have been fine are set for safe function.

 

[ATH]

I run a lot of Jewell and Timney triggers. Rifle Basix in Savages. I like all those brands.

My major problem with factory triggers....particularly Remingtons...is that by the time you adjust them down to a good pull weight they become a safety issue. As I now routinely yank Remington triggers and replace them without shooting them my experience may be dated. But set a factory Remington trigger where I would a Timney/Jewell, set the safety off and rap the butt on the ground hard, and they would trip.

 

[Danny Butler]

I run a lot of Jewell and Timney triggers. Rifle Basix in Savages. I like all those brands.

My major problem with factory triggers....particularly Remingtons...is that by the time you adjust them down to a good pull weight they become a safety issue. As I now routinely yank Remington triggers and replace them without shooting them my experience may be dated. But set a factory Remington trigger where I would a Timney/Jewell, set the safety off and rap the butt on the ground hard, and they would trip.

Exactly.... anytime you adjust an old school Remington trig under 3 lbs it's not a matter of if but when your gonna have an issue.

 

[Lahunter76]

Hrmmm I am using a Weatherby Mark V

 

[Doug Herold]

If it feels great, and you shoot well, I'd stick with it and give it some time before jumping to an aftermarket. I have some excellent factory triggers that were tuned by gunsmiths that I would never replace with an aftermarket trigger. Perhaps give some aftermarket triggers a try with other shooters/friends rifles if possible to establish a comparison. IMOL[/QUOTE

Hey Greyfox,
You probably already know this, but the new Coopers (Timberline) are arriving with Trigger Techs already installed in them ... very nice

 

[Frenchie1]

I wish the math was that simple.

I think it's a lot more like:

Total time for bullet to leave barrel is trigger mechanism release time, plus firing pin time, plus primer ignition time, plus initial burn time before bullet starts moving, plus total time of bullet in barrel. The last one is actually the easiest one and it's not easy! But Quick Load makes it easy (assuming it's reasonably correct). The rest are anybody's guess but may be available somewhere. They will vary with trigger design, firing pin mass, firing pin spring force, primer size & brissance, powder, case volume, bullet mass, friction, etc etc etc All reasons my head hurts when I think about doing the math.

The other side of the equation is just as difficult and maybe worse. Time of finger travel is probably related to finger tissue density, finger and trigger mass, finger spring and damping factors, travel distance limit and pull weight (force) before and after release.

Frankly, it might be a whole lot easier to simply measure the times than it is to calculate them.

Whew! Now you got my head hurtin! Most of my shooting issues are due to something I have done and it could be anything from my finger position on the trigger, my hold/grip, head position, distractions in my head or in the background, etc. I am a much simpler guy than these things/the math you are talking about here. If I were to get as deep into these things as you guys are talking about here, it would just give me another distraction in my own head and I'd end up not going shooting as much. Simpler is better for me. I have some guns with factory triggers that I have worked over myself and I have a few with Jewells and all are set at 2.5lbs. The Jewell's are a cleaner break IMO but don't see myself outfitting all of my others with them.

 

[xsn10s]

Reason I had asked was I had a gunsmith work on mine, charged $50 bucks, and he had done two for my father and I like them and I liked mine once it came back, but if there were advantages of an aftermarket trigger I was looking at that but after reading yalls input I believe I will stick with why I have!! Thanks for yalls help!

I guess then it all depends on the price of the aftermarket trigger and YOUR needs/ wants. Sounds like you're happy with your smith's trigger work so at 50 bucks that's a good deal. Aftermarkets are adjustable, but depending on your factory trigger it maybe adjustable too. But if you're happy with your trigger there's no need to adjust it. IMO you're GTG with your smith's trigger job. I test my triggers/ safeties every year and lube/ clean them at the same time. That's something you could do yourself or have your smith do.