Tragic bear attack in Wyoming

[WildRose]

Got home last night from 3 days in the Mission Mountain Wilderness hunting high country muleys. The griz population in this wilderness area is high. I said earlier in this thread that these bears are diff than the park bears. They have much less human interaction and still carry a health respect for humans. We saw a griz on Fri. He was working his way across flat that we were looking down on toward us. He got to within 150y and smelled us on the switching winds and promptly exited stage left. It was comforting to see this happen. The good news is most bears want nothing to do with us.

Talked with some locals on Sat night and with the dry summer they are having high volumeof griz incidents in in residential songs this year. The bears living in low country best humans are much more bold.

Steve

Park bear smells human=Free Food.

Wild bear smells human=Danger.

Pretty simple equation.

Sick, Starving, or sow with cubs, dangerous under any circumstances.

At least in AK the fish bears have people pretty well trained to just drop their fish and leave.

 

[WildRose]

mark....set....go 1 Mississipi 2.....................................

Set a dead bear line, and stick with it, too many people letting too many bears too close in my opinion.

He wasn't even in a real hurry.

 

[WildRose]

So when I'm in grizz country and especially with a downed animal, I very well know the predators are going to whip my butt and waaaaay before I even have time to react. So many stories start with "I couldn't even react, he was on me before I knew it...". It's a known fact the solo hunter will lose every time and it's shear luck when we people survive. My policy is to always hunt with a partner and make sure he/she is ALWAYS armed with both spray and a firearm and it is ALWAYS physically on them (not in a pack or pack hipbelt). Further, I think this is a big take home message that may not have been mentioned; I depend on my partner to save my life and vice versa, I have to save his/hers. It's my opinion, short of a claw to the neck or major artery in one big swipe, many bear attack victims do not die instantly. They usually last many seconds if not sometimes minutes. They get mauled and thrown around as bears are not always efficient killers like a cat might be. They kill us with stupidly with brute strength and multiple bite wounds and usually not very quickly. If I'm being mauled, it's highly unlikely I can do anything to deter it. Even the strongest men do not have a chance. I depend on my partner to not flee the scene, rather, run at the bear as fast as possible and spray as much lead into any vitals exposed from a low stance as to minimize hitting me. I know I'm cooked in a bear fight, but my partner has full free range to react quickly and put a lot of damage to that critter while he's busy with one victim at a time. I may not be right, but that's one of many bear safe practices we prep for. Pardon me, but the idea the hunter flung a weapon (innuendoed good luck) and "ran for his life" is criminal in my opinion. He'd be in jail if that happened in military combat. Uptain's body was found many many yards from that attack which possibly indicates he attempted to crawl for safety. My point is not to shame the hunter for abandoning in a fight or flight reaction, rather all reading this and in addition to many bear safe practices, above all practices should be DO NOT HUNT ALONE and DO NOT ABANDON YOUR PARTNER. Had Chuban laid down some shots with his pistol and/or provided first aid afterwards, Uptain would probably be with his kids recovering right now. Hope not to rant, simply opening a conversation about what I think could help us all in the rare case this were to happen to one of us. Like being a pilot, everybody studies and learns from plane crashes. Unfortunate, but helpful if anything positive can become of it. Have a verbal plan before you head out what to do if you encounter a bear and have a plan with your partner if one of you is attacked. Running for help is NOT an option. Prayers.

Anytime you are going into a potentially dangerous situation pick your partners with care.

Going it alone is never wise, even a simple accident can get you killed alone when having a partner along could have saved your life.

 

[WildRose]

I had a canister of bear spray some years ago on a bear hunt ( call it a lapse in judgement). Unfortunately I encountered a Sow and Cubs while i was In a treestand with archery equipment. All was fine until the Sow detected my scent and huffed sending those Cubs up my tree. When they reached my height in the tree, I of course kicked my stand to turn them around. Bad move. The Sow then headed up my tree in defense of her Cubs. I deployed the canister and fired down the tree at her. Instantly she retreated with Cubs in tow. That was quite intense even without contact. I had about half the canister still as I walked out shortly after the encounter. No further incident occurred other than the reflection on what could have happened with no deterrent. I guess the take back from this incident is, bear spray can be a deterent. No gaurantees regardless.

For black bears it certainly has proven to be, Grizzlies are a completely different animal.

 

[WildRose]

We have had Grizzlies killed in my area (B.C Interior) that are well over 30 years old and summer weight over 900lbs...

I don't doubt it at all. This was in S. Colorado back in the mid 70's and southern tier bears tend to be a good bit smaller than their northern cousins.

 

[WildRose]

If its a choice between ending a charging bears life, or my life ending slowly and painfully as i listen to my bones being broken and feeling the claws and jaws close on me... Im taking a life, plain and simple. Sorry, but your granola fueled ideals are something this world does NOT need

Lawful self defense and poaching have nothing whatsoever in common.

 

[HARPERC]

....Had Chuban laid down some shots with his pistol and/or provided first aid afterwards, Uptain would probably be with his kids recovering right now.....Have a verbal plan before you head out what to do if you encounter a bear and have a plan with your partner if one of you is attacked.........

My recollection is the client was hit also, it was the guides pistol, and empty. Plans are good, some even survive first contact.

The guide presumably having more experience needs to take the lead in planning, and execution. As a guide picking your partners isn't the same option as with hobbyist.

 

[HARPERC]

.....He wasn't even in a real hurry.....

When they kick in the afterburners you see the bottoms of their feet.

 

[Lycanit]

.40 S&W +P or ++P get pretty close ballistically.

Increased recoil makes it harder to manage for target shooting but up close and personal in an emergency you'd never notice anyhow.

When I go to bear country whatever I'm carrying will be loaded as hot and heavy as I can find.

I admit there's some real appeal to 16+1 in my XDM Comp's over the wheel guns but there's a lot more power in each load from the wheel guns and they never jam.

A .40 S&W is nothing to compare to a hot 10MM... End of story

 

[WildRose]

A .40 S&W is nothing to compare to a hot 10MM... End of story

I wasn't equating it to a hot loaded 10mm.

Comparing similar loads the 10mm is always going to have 100-130fps advantage.

When you compare standard ten to + or ++P .40's however they are very close.

 

[Lycanit]

I would say in 200+ bullet weight more like 200 fps. Certainly enough to be used for protection if already owned by a person.

 

[Educated Redneck]

I would say in 200+ bullet weight more like 200 fps. Certainly enough to be used for protection if already owned by a person.

I'd like to see ballistic info (MV) on a hot loaded 10mm with a long barrel say 7+inches. My assumption is that it would throw significantly more energy than a typical 4" or 5" barrel having more powder burn. I typically carry a Glock 20 with Buffallo Bore ammo in an aftermarket 7.5" barrel and beefier spring and abide by the "spray and pray" plan. May not be right or for everyone, but I think it has a talking justification along with other also wise plans. That said, every wheel gun argument is accurate and true other than they are a B to shoot one handed (if had to) especially if small statured like myself. I can handle the Glock, but a 44 or larger would fly out of my hand (or if not, certainly no accurate second shot). I've tested it. It's personally too much for me and a mag wheel gun sucks to backpack with too. Make the first shot count argument rings true, but I still like the idea of not defending myself, rather defending my partner and vice versa. While one is being attacked, the other closes distance and fires as much and as fast as can at point blank range within reason. Not saying I have the right answer, just food for thought. Bear spray is my back up. If I kill a bear and nobody was hurt, it's shut up time. I'm not reporting it. It's an animal and human life lives on for another day. I'll feel bad for the bear and the bad ju ju will probably ruin all future hunts, but we are talking about something that can or wants to seriously hurt or kill me or my partner. I'm taking that with lethal seriousness just like another poster said about a criminal with a gun brandished or knife pulled... I'm shooting you with intent to kill you. That's a no mess around situation same as an apex predator charging you. Shoot and shut up. Protecting your life trumps all. I'm rambling. Sorry. Again hope we all learn something and develop pre plans that work best for our individual situations and those get verbalized and agreed upon before every hunt along with how to prevent such situations and get away safely from non threatening bear encounters (not the purpose of this post and much great info can be found all over the web).

 

[Educated Redneck]

Above is my lower 48 plan. AK gets a no mess around long gun on both people or very large wheel gun that can be handled by the user (long gun for me). Also, I'm law abiding and respect law enforcement, but not much good can come from the report. I'm not going to be interrogated whether it was bluff charge or true attack. That debate ONLY belongs on the mountain and with the animal and humans actually involved at the scene. As previously stated, any charge is as serious as a brandished weapon from a person. I'm all systems alert with lethal intent not backing down and don't think I or anybody can think quick enough to decipher at that moment what is right and wrong or the human or bear's true intent is. Bottom line, Human pulls a gun on me, you're dead. Bear charges me or my partner, same thing regardless of what any LE says. I'm protecting human life at all costs and will suffer legal consequences (alive) later.

 

[Triple BB]

We were charged one time in the Thorofare by a big boar. My guide fired 7 or 8 shots. The bear turned at 15 feet and ran over to a tree and started raking it and growling like nothing I've ever heard. Then he walked into the timber howling and growling as he left the area. I asked my guide if he thought he hit it. He said you saw what I saw. This same guide several years earlier killed four grizzlies at the same time. It was a sow and three, two year old cubs. The sow charged when he was gutting an elk. He dropped her and the first cub charged so he killed it. He was changing his clip and the third cub charged. The cub tackled him and started chewing his thigh. He shot it in the head while he was on the ground. The last cub stood there and he dumped it before it charged. This was all with a 9mm Glock. I was one drainage over when it happened. He said his hunter froze, had dropped his rifle and was quivering when he got over to him. He rode into Cody for treatment, was interrogated by the Feds, and the entire thing was treated like murder investigation. If not for his hunter's corroboration and having his leg chewed up, he would've went to jail. I got rid of my revolver and now carry a 10mm Glock in the back country. Six shots won't get it if there's more than one bear.