If you keep digging that thread is on here somewhere and for all the Naysayers the Lee FCD improved everything across the board ...... I've been using them forever and I can personally tell you that the STW will respond to Lee FCD
To crimp or not to crimp?
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Lonewolf74
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I should add that I would only test with the Lee FCD or another collet crimp die if there's any out there. I would not use a taper or roll crimp die
I will second that , The Lee FCD is the only crimp I would use as well
Use the search function and look up Factory Crimp Die and you will find some good info from some heavy hitters on here ...... it's well worth reading and puts a lot of myths about the FCD to bed
RockyMtnMT
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I think the taper crimp works fine as long as your brass is all trimmed the same. I also keep it mild.
Steve
Steve
I'm sure it does but I have always used the FCD so I have no input on the taper crimp
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I think the FCD is better. I don't have one of them for everything. Most seaters have a taper in them, just have to set them up. If it works well then get a FCD for better easier consistency.
Steve
lesvoth
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Ten years ago I loaded 20 "normal" rounds and 20 with Lee's Factory Crimp Die for the purpose of discovering whether SD and ES is affected. This was done with a factory stock Ruger 77 Mark II in 30-06.
I loaded all rounds with 57 grains of Reloader 17 and Sierra 150 Match Kings.
The test was done without regard to accuracy. I was only interested in the SD & ES numbers. However, all rounds went inside 2 inches at 200 yards. All rounds were shot using the same aiming point and stayed in the same group. The "crimped" rounds had almost exactly half the SD & ES than those that were not crimped.
This was done on a beautiful North Dakota spring day with the wind howling and the temperature at about 20 degrees. Shooting next to a thick shelter belt kept the wind to a dull roar in the shooting lane!
I loaded all rounds with 57 grains of Reloader 17 and Sierra 150 Match Kings.
The test was done without regard to accuracy. I was only interested in the SD & ES numbers. However, all rounds went inside 2 inches at 200 yards. All rounds were shot using the same aiming point and stayed in the same group. The "crimped" rounds had almost exactly half the SD & ES than those that were not crimped.
This was done on a beautiful North Dakota spring day with the wind howling and the temperature at about 20 degrees. Shooting next to a thick shelter belt kept the wind to a dull roar in the shooting lane!
I have had the same results with everything I load...... I know this argument has been going on since the start of time, if you choose not to crimp that's fine and I could possibly see it if you were a competition shooter which I am not, I am a hunter who craves accuracy and the way I load the FCD improves everything and it works for me also it's very "tunable" as I have started with a crimp that you couldn't even see and worked up to heavy crimps the same way you would do a ladder test, it's just another tool to improve accuracy...... are there guns that won't respond to a crimp ? I'm sure that there are but are there guns that the crimp will help? Yep and I have said this in numerous threads " The Military crimps everything for a reason "
Buckskinner
Well-Known Member
This topic is almost as controversial as annealing, but not quite... I am a fan of the FCD as well and have done side by side testing and my SD/ES improved, period. Does that say something about my brass prep or methodology? Maybe, but it's still improved... I am always on here trying to find little tips to get better. FCD is one of those, I have one for every caliber I load.
lesvoth
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One of the additional things that validated the additional neck tension for me was watching a reloading video from Richard Franklin. Richard, now retired from rifle building, built World Record Setting precision rifles - and they looked good, too!
Richard has videos on building rifles, reloading, groundhog shooting, and more. He had to know his stuff and said, "If you start out using .003 neck tension and it isn't working (This was specific to caliber and load.) you can run it up to .006 and it will work."
Validation is nice coming from someone like Richard.
You can still find him at richardscustomrifles.com. You just put the "www" in front and you'll get right to him. Don't forget to look at the rifles he's built. He was an absolute artist!
Richard has videos on building rifles, reloading, groundhog shooting, and more. He had to know his stuff and said, "If you start out using .003 neck tension and it isn't working (This was specific to caliber and load.) you can run it up to .006 and it will work."
Validation is nice coming from someone like Richard.
You can still find him at richardscustomrifles.com. You just put the "www" in front and you'll get right to him. Don't forget to look at the rifles he's built. He was an absolute artist!
Just a couple years after the Lee Factory Crimp Dies came out I and some fellows at my local range that liked to collect military rifles of the world started what we called "Old men's military rifle matches". Most of the fellows could not get down into the shooting positions any more. We shot stock military rifles that only the front sight could be altered for height to get them to shoot to X-ring with 6 o'clock hold on the targets. We shot carbines at 50 yards and rifles at 100 yards for score from a bench rest. Some of the fellows that eventually got into these matches were VERY died in the wool bench rest shooters. I did a lot of experimenting with the Lee Factory Crimp Die using these old rifles because many had throats a mile long and you could not get a bullet seated close to the lands and have it work through the magazine. I happened to mention that I was doing this testing and these "know it all" bench rest shooters about horse laughed me off the range with comments like you are ruining the bullets my squishing them etc. So I kept my mouth shut about it because some of these "know it all" fellows were A-holes and we might end up in a fight. With my discovery of GREATLY improved accuracy by using the Lee Factory Crimp Die I began to win most of these matches in every category. We started shooting the rifle division by make and model together to keep everything even. These "know it all" fellows could not figure out how I could shoot Sierra or Nosler match bullets into such tight X-ring groups while they were shooting high dollar custom made bullets in some of their rifles and doing all their bench rest loading tricks etc. and had a hard time keeping them in the 10 ring. I never did tell them it was the Lee Factory Crimp Die usage that made the difference. I would just smile and receive the accolades for winning the matches. It about drove them nuts.
I've always been able to get great groups without the Factory crimp by just using a taper or roll crimp from my standard die. If I did have a gun that wouldn't group well or had a large ES then it would be worth a try.
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