Thoughts on antler restrictions

[Montana'eer]

But they are still being sued for slip and falls from people hunting on there property

Montana Block Management

Landowner Liability

Landowners enrolled in Block Management are provided liability protection under state law through 70-16-302, Montana Code Annotated (MCA), as long as no fees for access/trespass are charged. Landowners are also possibly eligible for reimbursement through FWP's Livestock Loss Reimbursement Program

Block Management | Montana FWP

landowner programs block management

fwp.mt.gov

I'd be surprised if other states with landowner participation don't have something similar.

 

[Montana'eer]

But they are still being sued for slip and falls from people hunting on there property

I just looked.

• Liability Protection: Cooperating landowners receive liability protection through the Recreational Use of Land and Water Act.

• 

  Hunter Access Program

  Hunter Access Program. Hunters can now search, create and print customized maps with aerial photographs, topographic base maps, Wildlife Management Units, Hunter Access properties and more.

  www.pgc.pa.gov

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[birddog 68]

I just looked.

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Thanks for doing the research and clearing this up!
Much appreciated

 

[hesse]

I just looked.

[/QUOTE]
I agree with you but it doesn't mean people won't file a lawsuit. They may lose but I know that he has spent almost $20000 in lawyer fees so far so how much do you have to spend before hand and if you can't get the fees reimbursed you are out that money and if you are retired and on a fixed income you may not be able to keep the property anymore

 

[birddog 68]

This is why I hope FWP adopts a sane mule deer management plan to include antler restrictions. Seeing all these small, and I mean SMALL fork horns getting creamed is ridiculous.

The young deer are so easy and most people are too lazy to actually get out of their trucks to hunt.
I'm sure there's always been shooting of smaller bucks in Montana but do you think it's the new resident's shooting most small bucks? And when did you notice the trend of shooting whatever has antlers?

 

[Montana'eer]

I agree with you but it doesn't mean people won't file a lawsuit. They may lose but I know that he has spent almost $20000 in lawyer fees so far so how much do you have to spend before hand and if you can't get the fees reimbursed you are out that money and if you are retired and on a fixed income you may not be able to keep the property anymore
[/QUOTE]
Not saying I don't believe you but I've heard enough anecdotal stories to not believe you. Seems like the states have participants covered. Not heard of any lawsuits here.

 

[Montana'eer]

The young deer are so easy and most people are too lazy to actually get out of their trucks to hunt.
I'm sure there's always been shooting of smaller bucks in Montana but do you think it's the new resident's shooting most small bucks? And when did you notice the trend of shooting whatever has antlers?

Not new residents. Out of state hunters. Pretty much coincided with a twit from Outdoor Life commenting on an area where we hunt. Word got out and we've witnessed more and more. Last year we saw more WA state plates than deer and that's not an overstatement. I moved on to different areas and private ranches.

 

[birddog 68]

Not new residents. Out of state hunters. Pretty much coincided with a twit from Outdoor Life commenting on an area where we hunt. Word got out and we've witnessed more and more. Last year we saw more WA state plates than deer and that's not an overstatement. I moved on to different areas and private ranches.

Hence the name Washington state trophy.

 

[Greta06]

OP here. Thanks for all your replies. Kind of surprising but for the most part everyone seems to be in agreement that antler restrictions are good for hunters and the herd.
Most here in my home state were opposed to restrictions at first but now most like them after seeing the results.
We have exceptions for youth, disabled and active duty service members which I agree with but senior's must abide which I disagree with.(and no I am not one)
I guess there's no way to please everyone when it comes to a management plan.

I'll jump in being from PA, I agree with this thinking except the senior part?
To those commenting on people shooting bucks that don't make the cut, I know a bunch of people who have done it and yes they get a $25 dollar fine and nothing else. I think AR is really helping us grow some very large bucks, I look at some bucks I shot 25 years ago and laugh because they were monsters and now wouldn't even reach for a bow or gun when seeing them while hunting. I actually wouldn't mind seeing the whole state go to the 3UP point rule but that would cause more outrage for sure. We are still killing a lot of 2.5 year old 6 and 8 point deer, the mindset of some people will never change. I hear so many complaints, I just want to shoot something or I just want meat, that's why you can get a bunch of doe tags...
On paper the total number of hunters has dropped over the last 20 years, but in the eastern part of the state you would never know. I swear I see more people hunting in my spots every year.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Like some of you , I also hate Govt. Restrictions, and Involvement, however, but I clearly see the benefit . In NY sate and Penn, you need to see three points on one side . Thats Ok with me !! It seems fair and sensible, and that's a big part of why we now see so many 8 pointers on my friend Penn farm, but we don't on my friend's farm in West Virginia. It should have been our idea, but it wasn't. I wish we had a way to successfully Influence our brothers and sisters who hunt. In spite of who thought of it, and enforced it , it doesn't mean it was a bad idea. IMHO

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

So they need to write laws that hunters that sign a release can't sue the landowner for accidents. Landowners do need to have full control of their land.... after all it is their land. They then need to be able to lease out hunting rights on it.
I hate all of the leasing that is going on now in the hunting world, but if there are landowners not letting people hunt for fear of lawsuits and there are deer that need to be managed then give the landowner incentive.

They are already getting a sizable break on their taxes. If they don't want hunters on their land. Then they should pay their FULL share of taxes. Just like everyone else. I do agree they should be free from all lawsuits. My grandmother had her land in clean & green. Everyone was welcomed to hunt the farm. Most asked permission out of respect. And she gladly allowed them. Some even shared their game with her. There's always a trade off.

 

[QSYB1]

Texas has an Agritourism Act that gives landowners protection again liability claims. This is the wording on the signs I have on my gates.

WARNING: UNDER TEXAS LAW (CHAPTER 75A, CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE), AN AGRITOURISM ENTITY IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY INJURY TO OR DEATH OF AN AGRITOURISM PARTICIPANT RESULTING FROM AN AGRITOURISM ACTIVITY.

tag based on what is being viewed. We filter the output of wp_title() a bit - see agriflex_filter_wp_title() in functions.php. --> <title> Texas Agritourism Act - Texas Agriculture Law

agrilife.org

 

[69precision]

I'm pretty much opposed to government imposing their will on us in any fashion. That being said, a big part of growing bigger bucks is by letting them live long enough to get big…

John

I get that, but it does seem kind of funny when people say that in a context like this. Hunting and fishing is very highly controlled by federal and state agencies right now. Having them put some rules around not killing young bucks seems like less overreach than many other things they control and might actually improve the hunting experience for all.

 

[billflangjr813]

Man....wake up finish the first cup of coffee and the fire is already stoked and damper wide open. Will try a quick summary to start and I need more coffee.

No question Antler Restrictions work to increase and decrease quality animals. I just want to see one manager who dictates what is done in the field who has generational experience ranching/raising livestock and made a living at it. Not the phony five animal hobby farm...lets say 200 head or more. Next would be the ability to fully implement their knowledge and experience. That means everyone including politicians (judges fall under politicians since they run for election), hunters, tribes, vegans, enforcement, all of it follow the plan for a minimum of 10yrs.
Will that happen? You know the answer.
They changed our elk area from any bull to spikes well past 10yrs ago. Before the change we would kill 2-3 bulls a year with a decent rag horn or up to 280. A couple studs and those were just pure luck. With a permit now it's not hard at all to shoot a 300 or larger. Now we see a lot more branch antlered bulls and some real studs every day we never saw before. The issue is permits numbers are decreasing exponentially and waiting 12-18 years for a bull tag is common. Now a good year is two bulls and several years of no bulls killed. Overall we see a lot more elk every day than before the restrictions. For our situation we feel there are some very clear distinctions on who thinks its a success and those who don't.

I would rather talk about the wolves. Sounds like a real can of worms. L.OL