The Truth About Reloading Belted Cartridges

[Wile E Coyote]

Regarding my 7mm Rem Mag, when FULL length resizing, I've settled on the following: head space off the shoulder .001" to .002". And I find less is better so I aim for .001". Even then, I only FL resize every 3rd firing, otherwise I neck size only. I also anneal when I FL size.

Using this regimen, most of the brass lasts more than 20+ firings and some are going a few more than that. A benefit considering the difficulty finding components... still today. The issue I run into that causes the case to be considered N/G is the primer pocket eventually opens up and won't hold a primer.

The few cases lost prematurely (1 to 4 firings) were from hot loads where primer pockets opened up after a couple firings and a few of those cases also had cracks around the shoulder from FL sizing too aggressively.

Lessons learned:
(A) Moderate loads are the norm. Near max loads beat up the brass, the gun and the shooter. Heavy loads exact their toll on everything including the wallet. While the cost per round is tiny by comparison, a burned out barrel or other mechanical repairs are considerably more expensive to fix or replace. And lets not forget the time lost while the rifle is on the mend at the shop for a few months.

(B) gentle resizing makes the brass last longer.

(C) After losing a barrel and some other parts to flamethrower loads early on, then revising my loads down somewhat, the gun still shoots far beyond my capabilities. It shoots a Berger VLD's beyond my personal range limit on game with plenty of velocity and energy to spare. Paper and steel targets go out well past 1000 too.

As for feeding issues.. Never had any. I usually single load but I have filled and cycled from the mag.

Having spent the time and $$$, this is my .02 on the topic.

respectfully submitted,

Pete

 

[BLOODHOUND BRO]

Nobody has experienced the issues with the flare just above the belt while FL sizing? Would this be an issue if you FL sized every time?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Nobody has experienced the issues with the flare just above the belt while FL sizing? Would this be an issue if you FL sized every time?

I had this happen on one of my 7mm RemMags, but the reason was because my smith orders custom reamers to VERY tight specs. So, any used brass would not work. I had to buy new brass to form in it. And after doing that, it never gave me any issues. That's the only time a "flare" has given me any issues. All of my other rifles, the chambers were cut with standard SAAMI spec reamers, so a little bit of flare was taken care of by using a FL sizing die.

 

[Timber338]

I don't see any issue with reloading for a belted mag. FL resize with Redding Competition Shellholders, and you can bump the shoulders to .001 - .002" smaller than the chamber.

I know that lots of people have luck with only neck sizing for 2 - 3 rounds or until the case shows some resistance to chambering, then FL resize. That has just never been a method that I believe creates repeatable shoulder location on the brass.

I agree that neck sizing will extend the life of the brass by a few firings, but I do not believe it is the best process to control the shoulder of the brass.

I like every load that I make to have the shoulder of the brass set back .001 - .002 shorter than the chamber. period. I can achieve that very easily with the Comp Shellholders. I don't have to mess around with screwing dies in/out in tiny little increments and hoping the next time I screw in the die I apply the same torque to achieve the same die setting.

if you neck size and you get the accuracy you're looking for, I really have no argument. Comp shellholders just work very well for me, for two reasons:

1. I get repeatable loads, bullet after bullet, that shoot 1/4 MOA out of my good rifles with all of my ammo using the Comp shellhoders. I have no reason to change anything.

2. With work, family, priorities, etc., I like the simplicity. I just switch out to the correct Comp shellholder for the rifle I'm loading for, FL resize, and I'm done. Then I'm off to better things than resizing my stinking brass.

Maybe I just don't like resizing brass.

 

[nosualc]

The only difference I see loading a belted case is that when you set your FL die to properly size the brass (headspacing on the shoulder), there remains an area of the case that remains unsized immediately above the belt.

This area can and does grow. Eventually it can grow enough to give you a 'click' at the top of bolt opening. This click can be enough to make it difficult to extract a case. I have personally had this happen to me.

The only way I know to get rid of this is to size more of the case (defeating the concept of headspacing off the shoulder), or to use a specialty die that specifically addresses this issue. Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment. It uses a collet to squeeze the case from the belt up back into spec. I have used this specialty die, and it works, but I personally do not want another step in my reloading regime.

This is the reason I consider belted cases to be a PITA, and I will choose cases without a belt if given the choice. On a properly chambered, modern rifle, with proper reloading techniques, the belt serves no purpose, and isn't worth the hassle.

-nosualc

 

[Timber338]

I really view the belt as insignificant. I resize all of my brass the same using the Redding Comp Shellholders I mentioned in my previous post. Whether it's a WSM, Win Mag, RUM, etc, I set the shoulders back .001 - .002" smaller the chamber. In the end we're only talking about raising the total height of the resizing operation .002 to maybe .008 higher than a standard shellholder. The tallest Comp shellholder is +.010, and I've never used it. Most of my rifles use either the +.002 or the +.004, and one of them actually uses a standard shellholder.

 

[Clark]

I think I only fire 50 rounds a year of 7mmRM.
2 shots to kill two bucks, the rest at long range targets.

I have given up on reloading the brass. It would be too much trouble to keep the brass assigned to one 7mmRM rifle. I have (3) factory rifles and (4) I built myself, and more on the way.

I headspace at 0.215", not 0.220" per SAAMI and the headspace gauges.
That is because I have not found any brass longer than 0.215" to the end of the belt.
That tighter headspace is better for the brass, if it will fit, but I am not reloading.

If I have ~ 17 hunting seasons left before I am too old the hunt, I have a lifetime supply of new brass.

I run it hot. 11 gr more than max published and 2 grains less than the threshold of long brass life.

 

[planetwaves]

A couple of useful tools from Innovative Technologies Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment that I have found useful are their Digital Headspace Gauge and their Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die. Visit their web site for descriptions of each. I have found the headspace gauge to be invaluable for the cartridges I reload (270 Win and 300 Win Mag). The collet resizing die is more of a precaution if you have experienced or believe there could be bulging above the belt. Seems to work fine, so I just use it routinely after every couple of reloads. Might not actually be needed, but since I have it, I just use it.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I've said publicly that I am not as fond of belted magnum designs as I am of those based on the 404 Jefferies. Though I love my Weatherby's.

This thread has exposed all the little "gotcha's" of belted magnum designs. Some of them are common to all case designs, some are unique to the belted boys. Even those more fond of the belt point out some warnings.

1 If you only use brass originally fired in your gun, the belt and web above the belt will probably never be an issue.
2 If you resize following the style of accuracy shooters, to bump the shoulder only a couple thou brass life and accuracy will be on par with the beltless.
3 If you anneal before resizing, the shoulder will be worked not the body+belt junction.
4 If you have the Innovative technology tools, when things go wrong you can fix them and proceed.

All the best

 

[g0rd0]

Belted? No problem!
In Sept 2007 I bought 6 boxes of federal 7rm I have reloaded them 9 times, lost 1, crushed 1 and still have 118 left, they are still going strong.
How have I done this? After the initial fireing I neck sized using a Lee collet sizer, trim (using the Lee hand trimmer) and load. I do this every time, on the 4th reload (5 shootings if you are counting), I anneal, Full length size (using the Lee FL sizer) load fire then collet size and trim 4 more times.
As of now the rounds that I am fireing need to be annealed again before resizeing. There is still no signs of splitting or belt separation.
Like I said I have no issues loading belted ammo

 

[tigerwerkes]

Bro, i dont have near the expreience or opportuntity to shoot long range as much as most of the folks on this fine forum, but i can attest that the info i have gleaned from LRH members enabled me to shoot a sub-moa 3-shot group on my first attempt (today!) at 600 yds from my 338 wm. Based on what i read here, i dialed in a load with an ES of less than 10 fps, but even more importantly i did it in less than 50 rds down range....these guys have done all the work for you so just follow instructions!

Coincidentally I got on here tonight to once again thank this group of guys for sharing their knowledge and saw this thread going. You're in the same spot i was in just a year ago and today i reached a legit milestone while I was working on the next step in my journey, which was to development an actual (vs theoretical) range card. the group below (orange dots) was centered exactly at -67" from POA, just like the numbers predicted. It looks like its about 5.25 ES, but i didnt measure exactly. All i knew was that it was inside 6" and i went berzerk!

I couldnt be happier with this forum and am truly grateful for the professional way in which it is run.

regarding the hassle and potential of belted mags, this is the most fun and success i have ever had in terms of precision, and it sounds like your background is simlar to mine with plenty of experience with smaller calibers.

So I say jump in, if i can do it anybody can. My rig is an all stock beretta mato, all i've done is lap the lugs, everything else has come from the load.

Good luck!

 

[KYpatriot]

I've said publicly that I am not as fond of belted magnum designs as I am of those based on the 404 Jefferies. Though I love my Weatherby's.

This thread has exposed all the little "gotcha's" of belted magnum designs. Some of them are common to all case designs, some are unique to the belted boys. Even those more fond of the belt point out some warnings.

1 If you only use brass originally fired in your gun, the belt and web above the belt will probably never be an issue.
2 If you resize following the style of accuracy shooters, to bump the shoulder only a couple thou brass life and accuracy will be on par with the beltless.
3 If you anneal before resizing, the shoulder will be worked not the body+belt junction.
4 If you have the Innovative technology tools, when things go wrong you can fix them and proceed.

All the best

This right here.

I havent had any problems with case diameter growth above the belt in my 7 mag. I just load like any other non belted case, i completely ignore the belt.

 

[Les in Wyoming]

For me, there is only one issue with belted cases that you can overcome easily once you know how. As said earlier, it is the belt that is used for setting head space. If you set your full length sizing die per most manufactures instructions, you may be setting the shoulder back too far. This leaves excess space between the shoulder of the case and the chamber which will weaken the case and lead to case head separation. Take some fired brass and carefully measure the total length to the shoulder using whatever device/method you prefer. Then set your F/L die so it only sets the shoulder back about .002". As a new reloader, it took me some time and reading to find out why I was having issues. The sooner you learn to address this issue with belted cases, the better. This is the same thing you would do with a non-belted case anyway.

Dennis

The more I learn about reloading, the more I learn how much I don't know. I hate to reveal my ignorance. I have seen this mentioned numerous times, but I don't quite get it. How do you know how much you are bumping the shoulder? It would be guess work with calipers, seeing it is a slanted surface. I am guessing there is something I am missing, making this a dumb question. But I haven't figured it out yet. I have just re-set my dies again according to what I am reading. As far as I can tell, I am resizing only the necks, based on where I see the marks on the brass. I kept adjusting down until it hits close to the shoulder. But I don't see where I could measure this to any accuracy. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Patriot007]

Hey guy's, Thank you for all the info. on the belted case's. I learned a lot on this thread because, I don't know squat about them. MERRY CHRISTMAS.