I was talking more like back in the 1940ish time frame.
Back when they were trying to invent the 223, 22-250, and 220 swift.
PO Ackley has some very interesting reading in his book.
The dumbest thing you have ever heard
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Back when they were trying to invent the 223, 22-250, and 220 swift.
PO Ackley has some very interesting reading in his book.
If I remember correctly it was described as "vaporizing" before it could even hit the paper target at 20 yards. This was many years before tips were invented. Like 80ish years ago.
But maybe this Ackley guy didn't know what he was talking about. I wasn't there.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Good grief. I believe this but wish it wasn't true haha.Maybe the dumbest hunting/shooting interaction I've ever had was a few months back at the range while waiting for a bench to open up. Couple guys in their mid-20's are working to get a rifle bore sighted. The seemingly more experienced of the two is acting as spotter/advisor and offering questionable marksmanship advice. He strikes up conversation with me so I inquire if his friend is a first-time shooter: "Yeah he just bought his very first rifle. He doesn't know what he's doing so I'm helping him zero it before deer season"…. after a few more minutes they're ready to light off the first rounds and he starts to warn people on adjacent benches that it's gonna be loud. The shot absolutely blows all the neighboring shooters out, especially the 10 year old girl and her dad directly to the right of the muzzle brake.
Me: "What in the hell is he shooting?"
Him: "A 338 Lapua Magnum"
Me: "And you told him to buy that?!"
Him: "Well I wanted him to get a 308. But he'll be able to shoot to 1000 yds with this"
Him: * Struggling to spot shots from offhand binos so I let them borrow my spotter * "Ooooh that's not great, we need to shoot another group"
6 shots in and the shooter is begging for a break, the people up/down the line are agitated by the muzzle blasts. Spotter persuades him to shoot one more group, then decides to jump in and rips off his own group. Meanwhile the father and daughter are visibly upset and just quit shooting. Spotter asks me to survey the target. It resembles a shotgun pattern and is about 10" at 100 yds.
Him: "Well what do you think?"
Me (noticing the scope is some cheap 3-9): "Um… I don't think he's quite ready for deer, but he's definitely not taking this thing to 1000 yds"
Him: "What? That rifle will easily shoot out to 1000"
Me: "Yes, this rifle will even exceed that, but HE won't. * glancing at the 20 rd box of cartridges with a big $149.99 pricetag on it * "…and you know you can't hunt with these here, right?" (Non-lead requirements)
The shooter blurts out: "WHAT?! He told me those are a good hunting bullet. I bought five boxes!"
That's like so many guys I grew up or went to college with have asked me how much further away they could hit a deer from if they had my .300 win instead of their .308 or .30-06.
My honest answer: not much. If you couldn't make the shot with a .308, trying it with a .300'magnum won't fix it for you. My rationale for using one has little to do with it being easier to hit anything and more to do with retained velocity to generate good bullet expansion at those distances.
But good grief the number of guys I've talked to who seem to think having a bigger gun will make them a better shot….the opposite is often true for them…
Calvin, did you write that in one breath? Because I read it that way.The number of times I've heard it suggested that if a bullet is going too fast it "doesn't have time to expand" and just pencils through. What a load ofthat is SO EASY TO DISPROVE. the only reason people still beleive that is because they want to.
And not just your typical redneck that owns a gun And makes a box of "shells", as they call them, last a decade and gets a little too chatty after a few beers while not knowing what they're talking about around the camp fire (yes that's very specific, yes I know many of these as well - it's an innocent harmless ignorance, totally forgivable, some people have lots to say and nothing to talk about and you just accept that about them and love them for who they are warts and all
But I'm talking people who ABSOLUTELY have zero reason to not know how daft this readily disproven theory is. Experienced and
Well versed hunters and shooters still spout this nonsense. Shoot literally anything of mass, whether a critter, a chunk of wood, a gel block, a water jug, I don't care, and when everything is equal except velocity, the faster bullet always expands or blows up more violently and quickly. Always. There is no threshold velocity beyond which a soft point magically acts like a solid. And I've never once seen any real proof to back up the theory. Have seen a mountain of proof to refute it. Sort of like that "dwell time" nonsense some folks peddle.
The expansion of bullets has NOTHING to do with how much "time to expand" they have. NOTHING!!!! Velocity, distance traversed, target resistance, bullet construction, sectional density. Things like that. You know….things that are REAL!!!Perhaps rotational velocity affects it too, maybe.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's a fair description
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Oh!!! Another thing I've heard more than once!!!!…
"It's still going up at that range".
The number of "good old boys" "rednecks" "fudds" "bumpkins" whatever you wanna call them telling me that their .270, .280, 7mm rem mag, 270 wsm, etc (for some reason this particular delusion doesn't afflict those shooting 30 cals or 6.5s) is "still going up" at 500yards…..
A) what the hell does that even mean?
B) that's only true if you're trying to shoot the sun at high noon. And looking at the sun through a rifle scope is bad for your eyes, don't do that!!!!
"It's still going up at that range".
The number of "good old boys" "rednecks" "fudds" "bumpkins" whatever you wanna call them telling me that their .270, .280, 7mm rem mag, 270 wsm, etc (for some reason this particular delusion doesn't afflict those shooting 30 cals or 6.5s
) is "still going up" at 500yards…..A) what the hell does that even mean?
B) that's only true if you're trying to shoot the sun at high noon. And looking at the sun through a rifle scope is bad for your eyes, don't do that!!!!
I didn't want to believe it myself. Told him he needs to get his money back and invest in a .22 to practice with first.
Oh I just remembered another that I have had many tell me.
When the bullet leaves the barrel it actually is headed down but after about 25 yards it curves back up. Like it is about 6" low at 20 yards then comes up.
I actually got one guy to change his mind. We locked it down in a lead sled at 10 20 and 30. I told him when you are off handing it at 20 (300 Rum) I think you are anticipating recoil. It took the lead sled to convince him.
When the bullet leaves the barrel it actually is headed down but after about 25 yards it curves back up. Like it is about 6" low at 20 yards then comes up.
I actually got one guy to change his mind. We locked it down in a lead sled at 10 20 and 30. I told him when you are off handing it at 20 (300 Rum) I think you are anticipating recoil. It took the lead sled to convince him.
Small Lady
Well-Known Member
A couple years ago I took a gun safety/shooting/hunting course, the instructor was a very nice older gentleman. On day 1 as we are sitting in the classroom, he said to us " never sight in a rifle by having 1 person stand down by the target, to yell back instructions on where the bullets are hitting ".
Well I am a curious type, and figured that if he felt a need to actually tell us that tidbit of info, there just had to be a story behind it, so asked why he felt the need to bring it up.
He said well, about 15 years ago that he had a couple in his course, and they were planning to buy rifles, and then take up hunting. The guy was planning to have his wife stand down range near the target so she could see the hits and yell back if it was low, high, left, right, and how much.
He said he felt sick just hearing about this plan, and adamantly told them to never ever do that, and ever since he has felt the need to teach everyone else not to do that.
There was no laughing, and not a word spoken by anyone in my class, just silence, even our instructor just stood silently for about 30 seconds....then said okay lets move on. There was nothing but shock by all of us upon hearing that story.
Well I am a curious type, and figured that if he felt a need to actually tell us that tidbit of info, there just had to be a story behind it, so asked why he felt the need to bring it up.
He said well, about 15 years ago that he had a couple in his course, and they were planning to buy rifles, and then take up hunting. The guy was planning to have his wife stand down range near the target so she could see the hits and yell back if it was low, high, left, right, and how much.
He said he felt sick just hearing about this plan, and adamantly told them to never ever do that, and ever since he has felt the need to teach everyone else not to do that.
There was no laughing, and not a word spoken by anyone in my class, just silence, even our instructor just stood silently for about 30 seconds....then said okay lets move on. There was nothing but shock by all of us upon hearing that story.
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Rubbing garlic on silver bullets to increase terminal effects on vampires.
That means that they don't understand gravity. It will take a large apple falling on their heads to help them understand.Oh!!! Another thing I've heard more than once!!!!…
"It's still going up at that range".
The number of "good old boys" "rednecks" "fudds" "bumpkins" whatever you wanna call them telling me that their .270, .280, 7mm rem mag, 270 wsm, etc (for some reason this particular delusion doesn't afflict those shooting 30 cals or 6.5s
A) what the hell does that even mean?
B) that's only true if you're trying to shoot the sun at high noon. And looking at the sun through a rifle scope is bad for your eyes, don't do that!!!!
This happened literally less than a month ago. I ordered a new 9mm Shield 2.0 from a known major on line retailer, name rhymes with Grab A Gun. They were extremely busy, 1 counter guy and at least 6-7 deep waiting to pick up firearms. Locals know they have very few and rarely anything you can walk in and buy off the shelf or out of the display case/counter. Maybe some odds and ends, some standard ammo and occasionally some bulk or newish firearms that are popular and on a good sale.
Gun Counter Guy:
"Do Not Assemble That Shotgun!"
New Gun Purchaser:
Proceeds to assemble the 870
GCG:
"I just said do not assemble that shotgun!"
NGP:
After cycling it a few times, shouldering it a couple times, "Well, how am I going to know if I like it?"
GCG:
"Well, doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's yours now!"
NGP:
"I don't think it fits me?"
GCG:
"See your gunsmith!"
NGP:
Confused, begins the disassembly, "Hey, are these big nuts up front a locking nut? It doesn't want to come back off."
GCG:
Hands him a towel and asks for his ID, explains the electronic 4473 on the laptop and proceeds to help me. I hand him my DL, LTC and tell him what I wanted. He retrieves it and, clears it and I look at him.
Me:
"I'd rather complete the 4473 and watch the show, box it back up."
NGP:
"How do you know if you'll like it?"
Me:
Turn to face him, showing me open carrying a Shield 40 that is from the year they first offered them.
NGP:
Asks me: "Do you have some pliers in your vehicle?"
Me:
"Yes, but I am not loaning them to you, I don't want no part of that ****show!"
GCG:
After reviewing my 4473, looking at my two IDS and reboxing up the Shield 2.0 along with a big stack of stickers, "You are good to go and we really appreciate your business!"
Me:
"Thanks, I am going to step back, chill and see where this goes."
GCG:
Chuckles
NGP:
"This isn't funny!" Still completing the 4473
Almost in unison
Every Other Customer:
"Yeah, it really is!"
NGP:
Hands back the laptop, credit card and asks, "Can I buy a gun case to carry this out in? I don't want to be seen open carrying a shotgun around my complex."
GCG:
"We don't have one here long enough for that shotgun, you can order one from the website and we'll ship it to your house."
EOC:
Chuckles
NGP:
"What about a box?"
GCG:
"It came with a free box, your good to go."
EOC:
Chuckles
NGP:
Returns the towel, grabs his ID, box and shotgun and leaves in a huff.
GCG:
Extremely polite the entire time. "Surprisingly happens 2 - 3 times a day, usually it's a pistol that leaves in the box disassembled."
EOC:
"Wow"
Old dude in the back:
"Are y'all hiring? I need some cheap entertainment since I retired."
EOC:
Chuckles
Gun Counter Guy:
"Do Not Assemble That Shotgun!"
New Gun Purchaser:
Proceeds to assemble the 870
GCG:
"I just said do not assemble that shotgun!"
NGP:
After cycling it a few times, shouldering it a couple times, "Well, how am I going to know if I like it?"
GCG:
"Well, doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's yours now!"
NGP:
"I don't think it fits me?"
GCG:
"See your gunsmith!"
NGP:
Confused, begins the disassembly, "Hey, are these big nuts up front a locking nut? It doesn't want to come back off."
GCG:
Hands him a towel and asks for his ID, explains the electronic 4473 on the laptop and proceeds to help me. I hand him my DL, LTC and tell him what I wanted. He retrieves it and, clears it and I look at him.
Me:
"I'd rather complete the 4473 and watch the show, box it back up."
NGP:
"How do you know if you'll like it?"
Me:
Turn to face him, showing me open carrying a Shield 40 that is from the year they first offered them.
NGP:
Asks me: "Do you have some pliers in your vehicle?"
Me:
"Yes, but I am not loaning them to you, I don't want no part of that ****show!"
GCG:
After reviewing my 4473, looking at my two IDS and reboxing up the Shield 2.0 along with a big stack of stickers, "You are good to go and we really appreciate your business!"
Me:
"Thanks, I am going to step back, chill and see where this goes."
GCG:
Chuckles
NGP:
"This isn't funny!" Still completing the 4473
Almost in unison
Every Other Customer:
"Yeah, it really is!"
NGP:
Hands back the laptop, credit card and asks, "Can I buy a gun case to carry this out in? I don't want to be seen open carrying a shotgun around my complex."
GCG:
"We don't have one here long enough for that shotgun, you can order one from the website and we'll ship it to your house."
EOC:
Chuckles
NGP:
"What about a box?"
GCG:
"It came with a free box, your good to go."
EOC:
Chuckles
NGP:
Returns the towel, grabs his ID, box and shotgun and leaves in a huff.
GCG:
Extremely polite the entire time. "Surprisingly happens 2 - 3 times a day, usually it's a pistol that leaves in the box disassembled."
EOC:
"Wow"
Old dude in the back:
"Are y'all hiring? I need some cheap entertainment since I retired."
EOC:
Chuckles
Of the nine kids in my family, my younger sister and I are the only Trump voting conservatives. The rest are flaming liberals. I get phone calls, "blah blah blah no one should own those weapons of war blah blah blah" and all the other rubbish and ignorant misinformation. One hung up on me when I responded that I have ten.
I've taken to responding, "wow, that's some mighty pow'ful Kool Aid you're drinking." I invite them to come shooting. One has. I gave him an AR. I guess he's now evil too
I've taken to responding, "wow, that's some mighty pow'ful Kool Aid you're drinking." I invite them to come shooting. One has. I gave him an AR. I guess he's now evil too
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
God bless you sir! Everyone should do this. Most of any skill I have as a shooter (and I'm by no means competitive) comes from high school and college summers at my folks farm having fun with dads old single shot COOEY and my RUGER 10/22. Thousands upon thousands of rounds fired. And useful in the real world field for hunting…often by late November here we have deep snow and you often won't have the luxury of taking a shot from prone (if you wish to keep your muzzle out of snow and be able to see your quarry). I've taken more shots in hunting from standing freehand or leaned up against a tree than I have from prone, off a bipod, or off any kind of rest. And that's the kind of shooting I was always doing with .22s at birds, cans, etc
Also fun and useful was shooting off the deck (leaned over the bbq, provided it wasn't lit) with that single shot (iron sights) at clumps of dirt or molehills on the hillside about 400-500 yards south of the house. If it had recently been cultivated or harvested and was dry out, you could see the dust puff up. I've never really had the opportunity to shoot further than 600 yards or so with anything, so doing this long range for a rimfire work was a ton of fun and you got to experience the time delay from shot to impact, a crazy amount of drop and wind deflection and learn how to compensate for that…so much fun. Affordable. And lots of learning and "muscle memory" from shooting so much.
