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Have You Ever Wondered
- Thread starter Small Lady
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
nksmfamjp
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2004
- Messages
- 3,504
Good questions:
Second is marketing. Nothing sells rifles like a new chambering! Think 350 legend, 360 buckhammer, 300 WSM….OMG, I need a new rifle!
Third is tech changes like belted mag, beltless mag, high head height, etc.
Bolt actions use a sliding cam lock up which can handle 65000 psi plus depending on the exact design. Most modern rounds are 65000 psi.
There are basically 3 reasons. First is SAAMI has no revision system. Once you make a 270 Winchester, the design is standardized and cannot evolve. Even a small change like 0.03" lengthening of throat is a new cartridge….even a significant twist change needs a new cartridge!
Second is marketing. Nothing sells rifles like a new chambering! Think 350 legend, 360 buckhammer, 300 WSM….OMG, I need a new rifle!
Third is tech changes like belted mag, beltless mag, high head height, etc.
Lever actions use a sliding lockup which is weaker. They cannot handle the same bolt thrust without breaking/yielding.
Bolt actions use a sliding cam lock up which can handle 65000 psi plus depending on the exact design. Most modern rounds are 65000 psi.
You were doing good right up to number three
Winchester M88 was a lever operated bolt action. It was able to safely shoot 243, 284, 308, and 358. The idea of a lever that could shoot higher pressure spire points struck a cord with the Savage 99, as Sako, and Browning also followed suit.Which leads me to my smartaleck answer...
You are correct Small Lady,. Firearms & Cartridges should have probably been frozen in 1963. Maybe on the day the music died, bye bye Miss American Pie...
We could have done it before that even. We already had the M12 shooting every gauge and bore ever needed. The M14, M70, M88, and the M100 to shoot the 243Win, 270Win, 284Win, 308Win, 300WM 338WM, 358Win etc. Yer right! Who the heck needs more!
KYGUNCO lists 345 Lever guns in 37 calibers
Rifles for Sale Online | Bolt Rifles, Lever & Semi-Auto | KYGUNCO
Find your new rifle online at KYGUNCO! Shop our selection of bolt rifles, semi-auto rifles and more in calibers like 5.56 Nato, 223 Rem and 22 LR.www.kygunco.com
GRABAGUN lists 445 Lever guns in 35 calibers
Lever Action Rifles
Find the best deals on Lever Action Rifles online and enjoy our Shoot Now Pay Later financing.grabagun.com
Many are sold out.
I'd hold out for this thing, ugly as sin and I wouldn't care what happened to it in the scabbard
milo-2
Well-Known Member
I am going to babble like a fool here. I've always wondered the same thing, yet at the same time loathe comparisons of a newly designed case to a 20th century favorite. Ballistics may be comparable, not the same.
I tend to not embrace New, doesn't mean I won't jump on the bandwagon later.
In the target world, the Dasher and then the 6BRA really kept things from going stagnant, my opinion only.
Hunting cases, wildcats, man, this new rd is 75fps faster and will kill all animals deader faster, deadest it will ever be, yet needs a newly designed action with the right length ejection port to make it a true thoroughbred takes it a hair too far. I'm a fudd, but I don't want you to call me one, hehe.
Also love guys designing their own wildcats just to have their name on a reamer design, hats off, reamer maker sold 2, both to you. Let's design a case with a 37.5 deg shoulder, because the 30, 35, and the 40 deg cannot possibly burn powder as efficient as my new 37.5 deg, this is a game changer.
Make no mistake, some new cases are the real deal, as was Win's WSM, maybe their WSSM, and Rem Saum, but both companies dropped support for them like a fat girlfriend.
Rant over, I have been like this my whole life, lack of enthusiasm for hype, the unproven, overly aggressive sales pitches.
Make no mistake, I have been wrong many times when new cartridges pop up, the latest the 6GT. I poured over case diagrams, case capacities, etc...and for the life of me, asked what was the purpose, well, I was off base, lol
I tend to not embrace New, doesn't mean I won't jump on the bandwagon later.
In the target world, the Dasher and then the 6BRA really kept things from going stagnant, my opinion only.
Hunting cases, wildcats, man, this new rd is 75fps faster and will kill all animals deader faster, deadest it will ever be, yet needs a newly designed action with the right length ejection port to make it a true thoroughbred takes it a hair too far. I'm a fudd, but I don't want you to call me one, hehe.
Also love guys designing their own wildcats just to have their name on a reamer design, hats off, reamer maker sold 2, both to you. Let's design a case with a 37.5 deg shoulder, because the 30, 35, and the 40 deg cannot possibly burn powder as efficient as my new 37.5 deg, this is a game changer.
Make no mistake, some new cases are the real deal, as was Win's WSM, maybe their WSSM, and Rem Saum, but both companies dropped support for them like a fat girlfriend.
Rant over, I have been like this my whole life, lack of enthusiasm for hype, the unproven, overly aggressive sales pitches.
Make no mistake, I have been wrong many times when new cartridges pop up, the latest the 6GT. I poured over case diagrams, case capacities, etc...and for the life of me, asked what was the purpose, well, I was off base, lol
yobuck
Well-Known Member
Well it depends upon how you go about your selection process.
If you like variety, then the choices are many.
But if you only look at performance, then the choices become more limited.
And that would include caliber choices as well.
As for the action types, the same things would apply.
Maximum performance requires maximum strength in the action.
Im not aware of any maximum performing cartridges being used in lever or pump action guns.
Mind you now, being a lefty, and being as old as i am, the first 15 or so years of my hunting life was with lever and pump action rifles.
If you like variety, then the choices are many.
But if you only look at performance, then the choices become more limited.
And that would include caliber choices as well.
As for the action types, the same things would apply.
Maximum performance requires maximum strength in the action.
Im not aware of any maximum performing cartridges being used in lever or pump action guns.
Mind you now, being a lefty, and being as old as i am, the first 15 or so years of my hunting life was with lever and pump action rifles.
Small Lady
Well-Known Member
When I began hunting rifle shopping, it was overwhelming how many choices there were. Eventually purchased myself a 7mm, but even in 7mm alone the choices are dizzying. But it was interesting, and a bit surprising, how many choices there are in just about everything. When I began shopping, I focused mostly on 6.5, 7, and 300. Those 3 alone offer a ridiculous number of options.
But honestly the hardest part of shopping is choosing a scope to go on a new rifle. What a silly amount of choices.
Now imagine a world where there was only 3 rifle makers, all build good to great quality, no junk, and only lever actions.
They come in a short or long barrel version, and 22, 30-30, 243, 7mm, 300, 338, and 375 only, just 1 choice in each.
Then just 3 scope makers, from good to great, and each maker has just 6 scopes.
Life would be simpler, and it should make everything cheaper by streamlining the industry.
No that isn't going to happen, and I'll bet that most of you are glad it isn't. Somedays it just seems to me that us humans over complicate things.
Be it the amount of items on a restaurant menu, tire choices for an ATV, flooring types and colors, body wash at the drug store, or most other things.
Can you tell that recently I have been shopping for tires, flooring, and body wash?
But honestly the hardest part of shopping is choosing a scope to go on a new rifle. What a silly amount of choices.
Now imagine a world where there was only 3 rifle makers, all build good to great quality, no junk, and only lever actions.
They come in a short or long barrel version, and 22, 30-30, 243, 7mm, 300, 338, and 375 only, just 1 choice in each.
Then just 3 scope makers, from good to great, and each maker has just 6 scopes.
Life would be simpler, and it should make everything cheaper by streamlining the industry.
No that isn't going to happen, and I'll bet that most of you are glad it isn't. Somedays it just seems to me that us humans over complicate things.
Be it the amount of items on a restaurant menu, tire choices for an ATV, flooring types and colors, body wash at the drug store, or most other things.
Can you tell that recently I have been shopping for tires, flooring, and body wash?
comfisherman
Well-Known Member
Had a range day today. Shot everything from a semi auto 17 wsm to a lever action 4570. Bolt, semi, and lever today as well as a revolver and some handguns that are hare to describe to Canadians.
I get the over stimulation and the trouble it takes to choose.
But my varied world is much better than the dystopian beige cartridge suggestion.
I get the over stimulation and the trouble it takes to choose.
But my varied world is much better than the dystopian beige cartridge suggestion.
I kinda want the 336 version!
Small Lady
Well-Known Member
As I know absolutely nothing about 44, what is that equivalent to in the rifle world?
243, 270, 280, 7mm, 300?
Typically considered a handgun cartridge. Straight walled 44 cal. Bad medicine at shorter ranges.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Too many? I think you mean NOT ENOUGH!!!!
I'm not talking cartridges…I'm talking CALIBERS. We need to pioneer a .290 cal. .296", halfway between the 7mm and 30, a conspicuous gap. To say nothing of the great NEED our community has for a .23 caliber as well, .234" splits the dif between .224 and .244, BUT .236" is true 6mm to make things even more confusing for everyone.
The .29 LRH and .23 LRH, cartridges and calibers that we need, answers to the questions no one is asking BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW ANY BETTER!!!!
I'm not talking cartridges…I'm talking CALIBERS. We need to pioneer a .290 cal. .296", halfway between the 7mm and 30, a conspicuous gap. To say nothing of the great NEED our community has for a .23 caliber as well, .234" splits the dif between .224 and .244, BUT .236" is true 6mm to make things even more confusing for everyone.
The .29 LRH and .23 LRH, cartridges and calibers that we need, answers to the questions no one is asking BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW ANY BETTER!!!!
