Suppressor on mountain rifle

[Hydra6]

I just came back from South Africa and "rented" a rifle - Howa 1500 in 3006 with factory barrel with a locally made South African suppressor (Mamba?). That combination harvested the usual list of "plains game" - I am sold on hunting suppressed.

My hunting to then was in WY and NM on mule deer and antelope with lightweight rifles that do not have enough meat on the barrels to suppress. I see now the interest in short barrels "fat" enough to suppress.

 

[jasonprox700]

This may be a stupid question, and I apologize in advance if it is, but does POI typically change between suppressed and not?

The reason I ask is that I've wondered if it was feasible to carry the suppressor in my backpack and just screw it on when a longer range shot presents itself? Could a person still take a shorter range shot without it, if time didn't permit getting the suppressor on?

With my 338 having a 30" barrel, carrying it mounted may not be ideal.

Still on the same fence as the OP and trying to learn...

Depending on the rifle, I do get some POI shift with and without. It's not huge, but enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a 400 yard shot on a critter un-suppressed when the rifle was sighted in suppressed. Every rifle is different and every rifle/suppressor combo is different.

I do this with my AR 308. It's a multi-purpose rifle. It gets used for spot and stalk, stand sitting, and deer drives. The only time a suppressor doesn't get used is for drives. Typical shots are under 50 yards. It's thick and nasty so the shorter and lighter the better. And the slight POI shift doesn't matter, even when put on stand (shots out to 200 yards).

 

[Dentite]

What do you mean?

I think he's talking about the kifaru gunbearer. It's a way to carry your rifle on your pack. I have one and like it. Pros and cons, but mostly pros for me.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Here you go. I am sitting at the range on AZ as we speak. Only 104° at 8:00am.

But I digress.

For reference:
A 22" w. 7" suppressor is the same OAL as a 26" w. a brake. You can balance out speeds by cartridge choice. Set your speed goal and desired barrel length, and choose your cartridge off that criteria. If you want a 6.5 140 @ 3050fps and a 20" barrel, a 6.5CM won't get you there. But a 6.5SS or SAUM will. If you want thw same speed and bullet but a 16" barrel, look at the 26 Nosler. Tit for tat, there are always tradeoffs.
L-R:
6GT w. 107 SMK @ 2977fps
6.5PRC/SI w. 140 Elite @ 3091fps
.300PRC w. 215 @ 2899fps

 

[Dentite]

Shortening a barrel always reduces preformance, when shooting in matches for 20 shot strings you can watch other shooters preformance in the wind and compair cartridges and rifle combinations when a speed up in the wind happens or a let off or the dreaded switch. the ar15 is used more than any other rifle now in high power and its easy to see the difference between a service rifle with a 20 inch barrel and a 24 inch barrel on a match rifle when shooting in the wind. I shoot a 260 and at the 600 yd line the wind moves me about half as much as a service rifle. the wind is not static every shot at 600 needs to be evaluated, it is a very rare day when you never have to change your windage from shot to shot. If a person wants to learn the wind that doesn't happen with a handfull of shots after a person has shot 10 matches he may start to become proficient with reading the wind which is your enemy for long range shooting whether shooting paper or animals. 10 matches is around 1000 shots which for high capacity cartridges is time for a new barrel so to take a 300 magnum and reduce it to a 308 by cutting the barrel off is a huge waste of potential if you leave the barrel long you get the advantages of less wind drift and better trajectory and there is no replacement for trigger time to become proficient at shooting. a person would be way better off shooting a 308 with 28 inches of barrel and getting 4 or 5 thousand rounds of barrel life. nobody will be good at reading wind and shooting in field positions without shooting lots of rounds down range. shooting in field positions is neglected, go to a range it is unlikely you will see anybody shooting any position accept off the bench which has nothing to do with hunting so will not train you in any helpfull manner

If the goal is maximum performance from the round, then why limit yourself to 28" of barrel? If you truly believe maximum velocity is the best, you're limiting your performance with a 28" barrel. Studies seem to show that with centerfire rifles such as .308, you don't start to lose velocity until you are well over 30".

So it's hypocritical to suggest a 28" to maximize velocity.

Why not run a 35" barrel? Because it's cumbersome and not practical. Sure, you'd like a little more velocity, but you choose a balance of velocity and practical length for a manageable size.

Well for some people, running a 26" barrel with a suppressor is too cumbersome and they want to benefits of a suppressor and are willing to lose a little velocity to make it a more handy overall length.

So in reality they are willing to accept less barrel length to make it more manageable, just like you do with your shorter-than-maximum-performance 28" barrel.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Here is a 26" w. Brake, 22" w. 7" suppressor, and 22" w. brake

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

While I agree with all of this information, it has no bearing on a short, light mountain rifle.

It has on the rifles I had sighted in prior to receiving the suppressors. By about .4 to .8MIL.
I have several rifles that will never see a shot go down the barrel without a suppressor attached.
As for "performance", I never go with raw speed as my defining criteria. Fornlong range, I need the most accurate load the rifle will shoot. If that happens to be at the top end, fantastic. If it is 100fps or more off max, but shoots in the .2s vs .7s, give me the small group every time. There is a BIG difference between a 2" capable rifle @ 1000 vs a 7" in the same conditions. 100fps is not that big of a deal compared to the accuracy potention. To me, THAT is where "performance" is key.

All that being said, I only have one 20" barrel vs seven 26" barrels. Four 22" and three 24" in between.

I have a 20" and a 26" in the exact same chambering, 6.5SS. 118 to 125fps difference with the exact same load tested numerous times with various loads. But they are not set up to shoot the same loads now. 26" shoots a 26gr heavier bullet (156 Elite @ 3036fps) at only 40fps less velocity than the 20" (130 OTM @ 3076fps). The 20" shoots the exact same 156 load at 2916fps. And vice versa, the 26" shoots the 130 OTM load at 3195fps. Neither of these loads are near max either. Just where they shoot best. Both are around 80fps below max using stable powders. I could step on the gas w. RL26 in both and gain another 100+fps, but again, I want "performance". Which to me is temp stability across 100°+ of possible hunting/shooting temperatures. The cool burning, and clean burning are an added bonus.

WOW @lancetkenyon way to go having absolutely crushed all the theories in one single post with actual facts and data collected in the field and range!!!

@coopsdaddy ABSO FREAKING LUTELY its worth every ounce and penny !!

I wont run a rifle hunting anymore without a suppressor. Shot thousands of rounds through them and can say they are worth every penny.

But remember, Not all cans area created equal, and just like everything else you get what you pay for. do you research and get the best one you can afford ....COUGH COUGH Thunderbeast COUGH COUGH..

Seriously though, read up on them, research the brand that most people are running and why. get on the messenger and hit up the guys who actually use them for hunting and ask questions.. they will help more than the people who are calling you an idiot for even thinking about it.

Been around most all of the "good ones" and can say, there really is only one company I will put on my rifles!

I actually enjoy totally crushing haters and whiners hopes and dreams that say ""cutting the barrel off to 20-22" is going to kill performance, you'll never benefit from that that cartridge it will never work in that barrel it needs at least 32" to perform"" I just giggle and send 215gr of AMERICA down range at 3k plus with stupid accuracy!

 

[ducky]

Is this to heavy to carry?

 

[SheepShapeAK]

My opinion is NO. They are expensive, unwieldy on a normal length barrel, add weight to something you spent a lot of money to reduce weight on, another thing to be cleaned and maintained, and are not necessary since there are better and cheaper options to save your hearing. It's a fad in my opinion since the rifle will still be loud and you should still wear ear protection. Instead, spend 1/3 as much and buy electronic ear buds like Otto Noisebarriers, etc. Why go through the ATF hassle and expense for something that only causes more maintenance time and hassles? It's a fad.

My suppressors were all cheaper than the electronic ear protection I looked at.

Do you own a suppressor? Ever used one?

My wife's 300 prc, when shot with a suppressor, recoils less than a buffer tube gas gun and is quiet enough to not need any hearing protection.

To each their own I guess. Also, you can't say it's a "fad" when it has been around for many years. A fad would be running out and buying a 6.5 needsmore.

 

[SheepShapeAK]

What model is that?
Weight?

It's an Elite Iron 375 Asset.

Caliber: .300 Norma, .338 Norma, .338 Lapua, .375 Cheytac
Weight: 40 oz. complete with brake. first stage with brake 32 oz.
Overall Length: 12.3″ TOL. 1st stage with castle nut 8.8″.
Exterior Diameter: 2.0 in.
Sound Reduction: preliminary sound testing 32-34dB depending on loads
Materials: Titanium Construction, Brake and Collar 7075 Aluminum, Encapsulater 4140 Heat Treat

ASSET® .375 CAL MODULAR SUPPRESSOR - Elite Iron

The new patented ASSET® .375 cal suppressor is all modular in design. Titanium, aluminum and 4140 heat treat construction gives the ASSET a rugged yet lightweight feel. Weighing 40 oz. fully assembled with brake, removing the 2nd stage the weight is reduced to 32 oz. Interchangeable direct...

eliteiron.com

 

[340 in Va]

Just workout more.

This is going on a 30" barrel and it will be used for hunting.

View attachment 480250

Would like to know what cal., and how much your rifle with this setup weights? Your barrel length must be around 42 in. Also would like to see picture of rifle setup.

 

[SheepShapeAK]

Would like to know what cal., and how much your rifle with this setup weights? Your barrel length must be around 42 in. Also would like to see picture of rifle setup.

You can follow along on the excitement in this thread.

Thread '375 EnABELR Build'
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/375-enabelr-build.335856/

 

[KiwiIan]

My experience with suppressors is limited to the over barrel type, apart from .22lr. The muzzle forward/can type are available. Generally they are used on rifles fitted with open sights.
Hardy rifle engineering have been producing suppressors for a number of years- they have compact and stealth models - up to Generation VI now!
DPT offer both muzzle forward and over barrel models. You can add baffles to DPT suppressors including a stainless steel blast barrel- a good idea with magnum or other high capacity rounds.

 

[QuietTexan]

I hunt with two 30" barrels 30 Sherman and 30-338 LIMP. Carbon fiber is a lot nicer than carrying a 30" MTU. There's really no reason to not to where I am. There's not a tree high enough to snag a barrel on for about fifty miles in any direction.

Studies seem to show that with centerfire rifles such as .308, you don't start to lose velocity until you are well over 30".

Who says you lose velocity over 30"? My 36" barrel says otherwise.

Why not run a 35" barrel?

I do, a 36". It's big too, 1.350" shank, 308 cal.

I actually enjoy totally crushing haters and whiners hopes and dreams that say ""cutting the barrel off to 20-22" is going to kill performance, you'll never benefit from that that cartridge it will never work in that barrel it needs at least 32" to perform"" I just giggle and send 215gr of AMERICA down range at 3k plus with stupid accuracy!

But this is the serious answer. Bigger cases run fine in short barrels. Maybe they aren't absolutely perfectly optimized to eek out every single last FPS possible, but it's not hard to match case capacities to velocity goals even in short tubes. 3k+ FPS from a 308 cal cartridge will work fine, all the time - be that 20" 300 NMI, 22" 300 RUM, my stupid wildcat, or a 308 WIN with a 12' barrel.