Stuck on caliber decision - input appreciated

[WildRose]

Hello all, figured I'd bring this thing that's been rattling around in my head to LRH looking for some differing opinions. The root of the question is the age-old "6.5/270/280" question. I came across an old Savage 270 in a shop recently and couldn't leave it sitting on the shelf for the $150 the guy was asking for it (it looked like it has sat in a basement for 30 years). I've had plans on starting a project gun and the opportunity was just too good to pass up.

For my situation: I live in N. GA so have opportunities for lots of deer and some hogs and coyote. I've got Rugers in 25-06 (tang safety) and 270 (M77 MKII) already but am thinking I will eventually convert the Ruger 270 to a 338-06 (for the CRF) in case I go looking for bigger stuff at "shorter" distances some day (<200 yds). Which leaves me with a hole in the "mid-range" calibers eventually. I do handload for everything I shoot today and would be handloading for whatever this Savage action turns into. I'd rather not buy $200+ dies, but in the grander scheme it's a small price to pay for something I'd probably hand down to my kids.

The purpose of the gun I'd like to build would be primarily something that could be at least somewhat competitive in long-range paper punching (I have aspirations of trying my hand at one of the shoots in FL or AL in the coming years) while still being appropriate for long-range hunting of GA whitetail deer, hogs and potentially elk (I'm ok with being picky about my shots).

My thoughts are that I want to stay in the '06 case head size and if I'm building something, I want to be able to push the highest BC I can to at least 2800 fps. I'm expecting to use at least a 24" barrel but am not looking at 30". Thinking probably 24-26", but maybe 28" if there's a strong case.

6.5-06 - I know that I can easily exceed 2800 fps with the 140 and have seen custom bullets even up to 165 grains that could be awesome out of this chambering. My fear here is barrel life and not really getting everything I could out of the '06 cartridge (I have no interest in running bullets at 3200+ fps, I rather run a heavy bullet at good speed than light bullets at lightspeed)

270ai - I'm already running a 270 and do really love the round. Obviously the 150's are potent on anything deer related with the right bullets but offerings over 150 are somewhat scarce. The new Berger EOL 170's are impressive but they're about it for what I think would be top-end bullet weight for a 270 and I don't see other folks jumping to offer more heavy-for-caliber bullets. I would probably go with the AI for less case stretching, a little more oomph (I think it would put the 170gr over the 2800 fps mark) and the fact that I could still use factory ammo if I needed to or felt like it. Being as easy to find as it is, I think this would be an advantage.

280 Sherman - While I would have to tool up to reload an entirely different cartridge and caliber, I think it could be worth it. I also think that Rich's Sherman chambering could put the 180gr bullets and possibly even the Berger 195 EOL over 2800 fps. Even the 180's would give me BC advantage over both the 6.5 and the 270, keep the speed where I'd want and allow me to leverage some of the slow powders to get these big heavies flying well without going to a magnum. I'd say that the 280 gives me all the "huntability" I'm looking for while bringing the great long range bullets to the table should I want to compete with it. I'm sure recoil will be a bit more but my Ruger 270 in its skeleton stock broke me in pretty well when it comes to recoil so I don't foresee that being a problem. I've found the advantages to a good Limbsaver pad and I can shoot that old 270 for 100 rounds now no problem. From my perspective, the downside to the 280 is the cost of dies and having to fireform brass. Both easily overcome with 1-time expense/operations, but worth considering.

Just to have it be said, here's a small list of the other cartridges I'd considered and passed on: anything with a belt, 26/27/28/30 Nosler (maybe for a later time), 7LRM, 6.5/270/7WSM, 6-06, 243ai, 6mm Rem, 260, 6 and 6.5 Creedmoor, 6 and 6.5x47L........you get the idea.

So there it is, do I go with the lighter 6.5's with very good BC's and push them faster/easier, go with the big 7mm with their superior BC's pushed not quite as fast or split the difference and try to build a gun around a single bullet that may or may not be the best in the gun? And let's not kid ourselves, at the end of the day when it comes to the hunting aspect, all 3 of these will be nearly indistinguishable from each other in on-game performance. The choice really is the ultimate splitting of hairs, but perhaps it's a hair worth splitting for the sake of conversation.

The 6.5-05, 6.5x55, or 6.5x57 would all give you what you seek and barrel life on all of them is good as long as you aren't abusing them.

Anything you shoot hot and keep shooting is going to have issues with barrel life so if you intend on shooting in a venue where you have to repeatedly run long strings through hot barrels you're going to run into issues with barrel life just due to the heat and pressure and the wear/tear it puts on the throat.

The New 6.5 that Hornady is coming out with is interesting too as is the 6.5-284.

Personally I've never been a big fan of the .270 for a lot of reasons but the biggest reason today is the relative lack of great choices of bullets as compared to the 6.5's and 7mm's for which there is a near endless list of high quality, high BC bullets on the market for both target and hunting applications. The more opportunities exist the higher the likelihood of finding that perfect match between case, bullet, powder, primer and your rifle.

 

[geocodyrgia]

The 280 Sherman with a 180 VLD would need around 3.525"

Ok, so long story short and after doing some additional research I'd need to look at either using a 284 (probably the shehane) which would involve some changes to feed lips at least or use a new stock/chassis that can accept longer magazines.

For those who are using the 280 with the big, heavy bullets, what are you building on? Is there a better platform I should have been looking for to start this whole thing off?

Thanks again for all the input everyone!

-Chad

 

[WildRose]

Ok, so long story short and after doing some additional research I'd need to look at either using a 284 (probably the shehane) which would involve some changes to feed lips at least or use a new stock/chassis that can accept longer magazines.

For those who are using the 280 with the big, heavy bullets, what are you building on? Is there a better platform I should have been looking for to start this whole thing off?

Thanks again for all the input everyone!

-Chad

For that kind of OAL you need a long action.

 

[FEENIX]

And let's not kid ourselves, at the end of the day when it comes to the hunting aspect, all 3 of these will be nearly indistinguishable from each other in on-game performance. The choice really is the ultimate splitting of hairs, but perhaps it's a hair worth splitting for the sake of conversation.

lightbulbBelieve me, this is NOT going to be the last time you are going to face this addiction decision(s); you can make it as easy as possible or as complicated as possible. As you can see, you are going to be overwhelmed with options. lightbulb

 

[geocodyrgia]

For that kind of OAL you need a long action.

Good news is that it is a Savage long action, but it seems to come down to using a shorter cartridge for the long/heavy bullets or adjusting the magazine length in my gun. I had long considered going to some kind of chassis platform with AICS or equivalent magazines, maybe that is the answer.

Truthfully I should have seen this coming. I tried playing around with the Berger .277 170 gr bullets just for grins knowing they probably wouldn't work in my 10 twist barrel but they didn't come close to fitting in the magazine when loaded to my "jam length" for that barrel. They DID look ready to enter the stratosphere however!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Ok, so long story short and after doing some additional research I'd need to look at either using a 284 (probably the shehane) which would involve some changes to feed lips at least or use a new stock/chassis that can accept longer magazines.

For those who are using the 280 with the big, heavy bullets, what are you building on? Is there a better platform I should have been looking for to start this whole thing off?

Thanks again for all the input everyone!

-Chad

Remington 700 BDL long action from a .270 or .30-06 will be perfect. Average magazine length is between 3.65"-3.75".

 

[elkaholic]

Good news is that it is a Savage long action, but it seems to come down to using a shorter cartridge for the long/heavy bullets or adjusting the magazine length in my gun. I had long considered going to some kind of chassis platform with AICS or equivalent magazines, maybe that is the answer.

Truthfully I should have seen this coming. I tried playing around with the Berger .277 170 gr bullets just for grins knowing they probably wouldn't work in my 10 twist barrel but they didn't come close to fitting in the magazine when loaded to my "jam length" for that barrel. They DID look ready to enter the stratosphere however!

A Long Action remington 700 is what a LOT builders use including many competitive shooters. It will fit anything that you want to put in it. There are probably more customs built on that action than anything.
If you want to just keep the Savage, a gunsmith can easily modify it to fit a longer mag. You may want to put in a center feed if you go this route.....Rich

 

[geocodyrgia]

as an update on this, from the OAL concerns brought up (very valid and thank you for bringing them up) I started looking at the 284 and it's variants (shehane, etc). I know it's been getting a great following around the F Class guys and thought it could be a great way of solving my OAL concerns.

From what I've seen 180 Berger are at about 3.1-3.2 OAL and able to get about 2750-2850 out of the UNimproved 284 cases, sometimes with barrels as short as 26". My key is trying to get a 180gr 7mm or 170gr .277 bullet to 2800 fps in whatever cartridge I choose.

I also took the chance to lay out some of the .277 170 gr Berger's so I could see what they'd look like with the top of the boat tail at the bottom of the neck and they came out to 3.4".......just fitting my magazine.

So, conclusions for others that may see this thread as they work their way through a similar situation, if I go 7mm it will be an improved version (maybe the shehane as it seems the most standardized across the competition 6.5-284 guys) of the 284 with a 28" 1:8 or maybe 1:9 barrel to make sure i'm over 2800fps. If I go 270 (which truthfully is how I'm leaning) it'll be a 270ai on a 28" 1:8 barrel.

I had really considered going 280 Sherman and putting the action in a chassis or use CDI bottom metal to get the really long AI detachable magazines which would give me the room for a 3.625 OAL. If I was working off a 700 action and magazine, I think the 280 Sherman would have been the way I would have gone. Heck, I'm not even 40 yet, plenty of time down the road, right?

 

[elkaholic]

as an update on this, from the OAL concerns brought up (very valid and thank you for bringing them up) I started looking at the 284 and it's variants (shehane, etc). I know it's been getting a great following around the F Class guys and thought it could be a great way of solving my OAL concerns.

From what I've seen 180 Berger are at about 3.1-3.2 OAL and able to get about 2750-2850 out of the UNimproved 284 cases, sometimes with barrels as short as 26". My key is trying to get a 180gr 7mm or 170gr .277 bullet to 2800 fps in whatever cartridge I choose.

I also took the chance to lay out some of the .277 170 gr Berger's so I could see what they'd look like with the top of the boat tail at the bottom of the neck and they came out to 3.4".......just fitting my magazine.

So, conclusions for others that may see this thread as they work their way through a similar situation, if I go 7mm it will be an improved version (maybe the shehane as it seems the most standardized across the competition 6.5-284 guys) of the 284 with a 28" 1:8 or maybe 1:9 barrel to make sure i'm over 2800fps. If I go 270 (which truthfully is how I'm leaning) it'll be a 270ai on a 28" 1:8 barrel.

I had really considered going 280 Sherman and putting the action in a chassis or use CDI bottom metal to get the really long AI detachable magazines which would give me the room for a 3.625 OAL. If I was working off a 700 action and magazine, I think the 280 Sherman would have been the way I would have gone. Heck, I'm not even 40 yet, plenty of time down the road, right?

I think accurate mag makes a 2.850" for your Savage......Rich