Smokeless Muzzleloader

[Mike Matteson]

I am one of the over 70. It has always interested me in the Muzzle Loader. Just never taken the time to get one or shoot one. I have been at some ranges, where somebody is firing one or two. I stop and talked to them about their rifles. Yes I am from Montana and have been for a great many years. We have so many or extended season it isn't funny. With the wolves it has really cut into the game there. Closed areas and the grizzle bears has or is becoming a big problem here in the state. Or at lease I feel that way. We had a Democrat Governor for a long time, and couldn't get by him, and how he appointed on the game commission. That has changed now, and hopefully we can keep it that way. Land you can't get onto, and the elk hold up at. The wolves has really cut into the elk here. Long seasons and some areas allowed to shot cow elk in a portion of the hunting period. One area outside of Yellowstone the Fed's and State were working together to reduce the elk, so the bison could have an area for the winter time. I watch the elk, moose disappear there. On top of the that they moved in the Grizzle Bear. it has become a deadly area for hunter to hunt in now. Every year you hear about somebody getting eaten up there. 20 years ago there wasn't any Grizzly Bears there. The state and the feds moved them in there. I hunted there with a bow, and not a rifle. I have stop hunting there, and the game has gone down. Moose you couldn't not stop running into them there. Now good luck finding them now.

 

[Scott E Ames]

I own a Hankins Custom built muzzlerloader. I'm pushing a 353 grain Pittman bullet over 3900 fps. With a 100 yard zero, it only take 16 MOA to get to 1,000 yards.
I'll be more than glad to shoot mine against any 338.

Do you mean 3900 fps or more likely 2900 fps? I have a full custom 45 SML and using IMR 4198 I got to 3000 fps and my magnum priming modules expanded enough that they got tight in the shell holder for de-priming. I spoke to the gunsmith that built my rifle and he said that is similar to getting case head expansion on a centerfire and I was over pressure and should back off. I decreased my charge to a 2750 fps load with the 300 gr. .45 cal. Pittmans and got this 3 shot 100 yard group.




The recoil at 3000 fps was more than my 416 Rigby. The 2750 fps loads are pretty pleasant to shoot. I would feel comfortable to 400 yards with my system but ballistics and time of flight get pretty challenging after that. If you really are getting 3900 fps what powder/primer are you using?
My rifle is a Jon Beanland custom
700 magnum action
Bartlein 26" barrel (Heavy Palma contour)
Macmillan ADL stock
Triggertech trigger
Huge muzzle brake (brand?)

This system certainly out performs a 375 H&H but I think a 338 Lapua would be hard to top, especially at a longer distance.

 

[Deputy819]

I own a Hankins Custom built muzzlerloader. I'm pushing a 353 grain Pittman bullet over 3900 fps. With a 100 yard zero, it only take 16 MOA to get to 1,000 yards.
I'll be more than glad to shoot mine against any 338.

Nice to see ya over here, Mark!

 

[Mike Matteson]

From what I have seen so far. .45cal is what people are going with?

 

[DarryH]

Total BS and needs to not be legal for hunting

I shoot and hunt with muzzleloaders, I also sell them where I work. People are always asking me about traditional and in-line models. I tell them that in-lines are better in every way, but I also explain, they are a better TOOL to HARVEST game. Some folks NEED to take game to survive. These guys are better served with an in-line, Sidelocks, side-hammers, under-hammers, are all more traditional and challenging to use. Lots of folks, myself included prefer the challenge, but I am not hunting to survive. My newest one is a flintlock, smoothbore, with no rear sight. Commonly referred to as trade muskets or buck-n-ball guns, they are a challenge, and lots of fun. For years we were warned NOT to use smokeless powder in any of these guns, then Savage introduces a factory model that would shoot both types of powder. Sadly, a few people managed to blow up some of these, and Savage no longer recommends using the smokeless pow/3der. Now with custom guns, it is changing again. I don't care what type anyone uses. In Iowa and Nebraska, they say we are taking about a third of the number we need to harvest to keep the herds healthy. Nature is far crueler when culling, and we don't get to eat all that great meat. Same arguments apply for longbows, recurves, compounds, and crossbows. If herds get under control, or their numbers are to greatly reduced, the game commissions will step in to limit the hunting. Have fun EVERYONE !!

 

[shooterntn]

My apologies for being short and calling your love BS. I had a bad day.

I do feel that smokeless muzzle loaders (and really any ML should only be allowed to be packed with so much BP substitute per grain weight projectile) should not be legal for hunting.

It goes against the very spirit of muzzleloading and it is simply just not fair to have a season dedicated to a traditional style of rifle, but there are those that bend the rules as far as possible to gain an edge or to make money on that product they make. These things might as well be considered center-fire rifles.

That is my opinion. I'll remove myself from your thread now

I can agree on what you are saying. Some guys like close some like long... But i try get close as possible but if its not going work i want the know how and have the weapon to get it done.
Some states kinda hard only limiting scope power and some states only iron sights.. But them are usually the best draw areas.. Much love

 

[buckeye68]

Do you mean 3900 fps or more likely 2900 fps? I have a full custom 45 SML and using IMR 4198 I got to 3000 fps and my magnum priming modules expanded enough that they got tight in the shell holder for de-priming. I spoke to the gunsmith that built my rifle and he said that is similar to getting case head expansion on a centerfire and I was over pressure and should back off. I decreased my charge to a 2750 fps load with the 300 gr. .45 cal. Pittmans and got this 3 shot 100 yard group.


View attachment 370233

The recoil at 3000 fps was more than my 416 Rigby. The 2750 fps loads are pretty pleasant to shoot. I would feel comfortable to 400 yards with my system but ballistics and time of flight get pretty challenging after that. If you really are getting 3900 fps what powder/primer are you using?
My rifle is a Jon Beanland custom
700 magnum action
Bartlein 26" barrel (Heavy Palma contour)
Macmillan ADL stock
Triggertech trigger
Huge muzzle brake (brand?)

This system certainly out performs a 375 H&H but I think a 338 Lapua would be hard to top, especially at a longer distance.

Yes, I did mean 3900 fps. I use Hanks Ignition System with a large magnum rifle primer with zero issues with extraction out of the plug. I use a XL dose 7828 SSC. I keep the recoil down using a Hanks Precision 6 port fish gill muzzle break.
I took first place with this combo in the Hoosier Muzzleloader Classic last year.

 

[buckeye68]

Nice to see ya over here, Mark!

I've been a member for a little while but I'm trying to keep a low profile.

 

[Scott E Ames]

That system should go to Africa where you can let it stretch its legs and take down some really big game.
Very impressive performance!

 

[Ultimatepredator]

Buckeye 68 is correct,3900 fps with a 353 grain Labradar verified… I personally have shot his rifle and is a true beast… I personally own 8 SML with one being a .40 caliber shooting larger doses of N560 in 3260's in velocity.. my best was 8 shots 5 in group at 1000 yards verify by Hillbill and John Hakes spotting for me .another on a Bat-CT action 1.350 straight in a .45 in McMillan LRB stock shooting a 325 Pittman consistently at 3140's
The one I hunt with is .45 I hold the Kentucky challenge range record at 300 yards of .334 shooting a 325 Pittman at 3085 fps
maybe off the subject some but marks gun is no joke. It shoots tiny tiny groups and myself personally wish ranges would hold more 1000 yard for us guys that like it to outer extremes
Just saying

 

[ENCORE]

..............................personally wish ranges would hold more 1000 yard for us guys that like it to outer extremes
Just saying

Its no secret that its just hard to get a 1k shoot, or any shoot organized and just as hard to find a 1k range. It may help to work to get a larger organization involved for support. Even then it'll likely take considerable time.

It took over 6yrs to overcome "modern inlines" at Friendship and the NMLRA, and now there are many matches for modern inlines and it appears to be growing. I have ... heard ... from a couple at the NMLRA that it could be a possibility to entertain SML shooters. It'll never happen without support from both inside and outside the organization.

There's a trial long range shoot this coming weekend at Camp Atterbury. Ranges will be 800, 900 and 1,000yds. However, there's no SML allowed. It is only BP or substitutes and with BH209, there's a maximum of 120grs VOLUME. This trial is being held in conjunction with a BPCR shoot.
Here's the bad part............... Unless something has changed since I last talked with the match director, there's only 4 of us who have signed up to shoot modern inline rifles in the match. That said, there's no way that only 4 shooters will ever convince them or the NMLRA to include SML. I can guarantee, all 4 of us shooting next weekend would support a SML match.

These custom rifles will all shoot BH209 and do it extremely accurately. If some of the SML guys would start getting involved in some of these BP or substitute shoots, it would be much easier to get SML shoots organized. And yes, how one shoots will be different for most. SML shooters are primarily bench shooters using both front and rear rests or, full rifle rests. Some very expensive. On the other side, I know of only one match that allows a rear rest shooting to 500yds. Mostly its only a front rest, bipod or cross sticks. Next weekend is cross sticks. Flyer is posted a couple posts down.
Sometimes I think that we may have to take a step backwards to gain further our expectations.

 

[Dragoon300]

Its no secret that its just hard to get a 1k shoot, or any shoot organized and just as hard to find a 1k range. It may help to work to get a larger organization involved for support. Even then it'll likely take considerable time.

It took over 6yrs to overcome "modern inlines" at Friendship and the NMLRA, and now there are many matches for modern inlines and it appears to be growing. I have ... heard ... from a couple at the NMLRA that it could be a possibility to entertain SML shooters. It'll never happen without support from both inside and outside the organization.

There's a trial long range shoot this coming weekend at Camp Atterbury. Ranges will be 800, 900 and 1,000yds. However, there's no SML allowed. It is only BP or substitutes and with BH209, there's a maximum of 120grs VOLUME. This trial is being held in conjunction with a BPCR shoot.
Here's the bad part............... Unless something has changed since I last talked with the match director, there's only 4 of us who have signed up to shoot modern inline rifles in the match. That said, there's no way that only 4 shooters will ever convince them or the NMLRA to include SML. I can guarantee, all 4 of us shooting next weekend would support a SML match.

These custom rifles will all shoot BH209 and do it extremely accurately. If some of the SML guys would start getting involved in some of these BP or substitute shoots, it would be much easier to get SML shoots organized. And yes, how one shoots will be different for most. SML shooters are primarily bench shooters using both front and rear rests or, full rifle rests. Some very expensive. On the other side, I know of only one match that allows a rear rest shooting to 500yds. Mostly its only a front rest, bipod or cross sticks. Next weekend is cross sticks. Flyer is posted a couple posts down.
Sometimes I think that we may have to take a step backwards to gain further our expectations.

I am a member at MTC (Marksmanship Training Center) in Lake City, Michigan there are two 1k ranges there, the Michigan F TR rifle team practices there. It is a great place to shoot, and the guys up there are great! I am sure the management would be open to a SML shoot if enough interest was there.

 

[ENCORE]

I am a member at MTC (Marksmanship Training Center) in Lake City, Michigan there are two 1k ranges there, the Michigan F TR rifle team practices there. It is a great place to shoot, and the guys up there are great! I am sure the management would be open to a SML shoot if enough interest was there.

I'm about 3.5hrs away from MTC (Hubbard Lake). If I'm not mistaken, which I very well could be, you can't shoot there without being a member???? If they had an invitational, I'd show.
The Alpena Sportsman's Club has a 600yd range, which is where I spend most of my time.

 

[buckeye68]

Encore-
If they want to attract more shooter than they will have to change with the times. They can still keep the traditional muzzleloaders, black power, paper patch and round balls. They just need to have a class for all shooters if they want to grow the sport. If not they will just be part of history in a few decade, unfortunately.