Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Got it and type down and saved. THANKS!
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Smokeless Muzzleloader
- Thread starter BLASERMAN
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griz375
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 90
Those possessing the purist mentality do more harm than good. Whether it's archery, smoke poles, or even fly fishing, it's one that borders on psychosis. While dressed in buckskins, or new Simms waders their self image has them bathed is some form of divine light, when In reality their an embarrassment to the outdoor community, and secretly their family hates them too.
Do this one and you can have the muzzleloader as pictured and 338LM in the same rifle, as well as most any other cartridge you may decide on.
Just swap barrel, bolt, magazines as necessary. One very accurate platform, one scope, the same fit and feel!
Just swap barrel, bolt, magazines as necessary. One very accurate platform, one scope, the same fit and feel!
Deputy819
Well-Known Member
Check this thread out…..but be warned (as I was over and over by a very nice fella here) this bottomless rabbit-hole is particularly addicting.
Let’s see those Smokeless builds!!
Hey, folks! Just got my first smokeless muzzleloader into action today (100 yard sight-in) and since the season is upon us I thought it would be cool to start a ‘smokeless thread’. SO, LET’S SEE THOSE BUILDS 😁! Mine is a Jeff Hankins conversion from CVA Scout .45-70 to smokeless muzzleloader...
That's impressive, thanks for sharing the details!
shooterntn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 88
Never had one get away and shot mule deer over 500 and whitetail out to 750.. So why say it should be illegal. !
shooterntn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 88
Hankins makes some fine mz and rifles.. I like jeff ignition system over lukes.. But some act like luke is king.Check this thread out…..but be warned (as I was over and over by a very nice fella here) this bottomless rabbit-hole is particularly addicting.
Let’s see those Smokeless builds!!
Hey, folks! Just got my first smokeless muzzleloader into action today (100 yard sight-in) and since the season is upon us I thought it would be cool to start a ‘smokeless thread’. SO, LET’S SEE THOSE BUILDS 😁! Mine is a Jeff Hankins conversion from CVA Scout .45-70 to smokeless muzzleloader...www.longrangehunting.com
slsak
Active Member
It goes against the spirit of a ML season. There will always be those who go against the concept and seek to find ways to gain an advantage and those who will seek to return regulations to their intended purpose.
Fight all you like over the idea. A superduper shotgun that could stay .25 MOA at 400 yds might be legal but wouldn't fit the safety purpose of a shotgun only zone, but would have buyers and detractors who thought it was BS.
shooterntn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 88
shooterntn
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 88
Does shotgun and mz not fit and the same category ? But ... Butttt i guess the old saying is true. If everyone thought the same it be a boring place !!..
My apologies for being short and calling your love BS. I had a bad day.
I do feel that smokeless muzzle loaders (and really any ML should only be allowed to be packed with so much BP substitute per grain weight projectile) should not be legal for hunting.
It goes against the very spirit of muzzleloading and it is simply just not fair to have a season dedicated to a traditional style of rifle, but there are those that bend the rules as far as possible to gain an edge or to make money on that product they make. These things might as well be considered center-fire rifles.
That is my opinion. I'll remove myself from your thread now
I do feel that smokeless muzzle loaders (and really any ML should only be allowed to be packed with so much BP substitute per grain weight projectile) should not be legal for hunting.
It goes against the very spirit of muzzleloading and it is simply just not fair to have a season dedicated to a traditional style of rifle, but there are those that bend the rules as far as possible to gain an edge or to make money on that product they make. These things might as well be considered center-fire rifles.
That is my opinion. I'll remove myself from your thread now
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of states that have heavy restrictions on use of a black powder rifle. Where the rifle that's been shown wouldn't be allowed in several states. Several state don't allow scopes, and some don't allow for inline firing set ups. It's times like this, that we can't hardly get components for modern day rifles. So a black powder rifle might come in handy. I have info on how to make black powder. I not sure if it's would be up to today standards, but it's achievable. I have the items to make up bullets or cast them, in any caliber. I am amazed at the velocity that can be achieved with the black powder rifles. Accuracies I was aware of, but out to only 300yds or so, but with that velocity I can see where the range is greatly extended.
I kind of have to laugh about all the hell over the AR-15 again, and the 2nd amendment was only for black powder firearms. and the now day black powder shoots better than the AR-15. I realize that the muzzle loader can't be fire as much, but anyway it can reach in the right hands.
So I wouldn't get my dress all up in the air over black powder rifles. I am again glad he shared the info. I don't think much about people making 1000yd shots when hunting. If I can't close that distance down to under 500yds, I don't think it hunting, but that my feeling. So using black powder or shooting 1000yds for animals doesn't make it wrong. Generally my shots are under 200yds and closer. The only thing I use extended range is varmint hunting, and that help keep my eye on target. When bow hunting it's under 75yds. Now that hunting with all the skills to close the distance. Now I can't travel the ground as well now, being older, so I have had to go back to a rifle.
I kind of have to laugh about all the hell over the AR-15 again, and the 2nd amendment was only for black powder firearms. and the now day black powder shoots better than the AR-15. I realize that the muzzle loader can't be fire as much, but anyway it can reach in the right hands.
So I wouldn't get my dress all up in the air over black powder rifles. I am again glad he shared the info. I don't think much about people making 1000yd shots when hunting. If I can't close that distance down to under 500yds, I don't think it hunting, but that my feeling. So using black powder or shooting 1000yds for animals doesn't make it wrong. Generally my shots are under 200yds and closer. The only thing I use extended range is varmint hunting, and that help keep my eye on target. When bow hunting it's under 75yds. Now that hunting with all the skills to close the distance. Now I can't travel the ground as well now, being older, so I have had to go back to a rifle.
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Things have changed for the better at the NMLRA for modern inline rifle shooters. Here's a great article.
MUZZLE BLASTS, July 2017
Muzzleloading Afield
THE QUESTION OF IN-LINES, Written by: Al Raychard
We're going to take a break from our normal hunting related topic this month and address an issue that seems to have spawned controversy within the NMLRA. A great deal has been said about in-lines in these pages recently, and as a supporter of the NMLRA, a contributor to this magazine for nearly three decades, and as an in-line user since they arrived on the scene back in the early 1980's, I thought I would toss in my two cents worth.
Not everyone will agree with what I have to say, but hopefully it will provide some food for serious thoughts because, as the saying goes, a house divided cannot stand, which seems to be where we're headed, and as MB Editor Lee Larkin has recently written, this association could pass out of existence unless membership numbers change. If you don't believe that, perhaps you will recall the total membership back in the 1970's. I don't remember the exact number of members back then, but I'm willing to bet a dollar it was much, much higher than it is now by maybe as much as 10,000 members. That in itself should give us all a reason for concern. It is not that interest in muzzleloading has declined in recent years, in fact it has never been more popular, but rather the interest of today's younger muzzleloader enthusiasts has changed, particularly when it comes to hunting.
Keep in mind, I speak as a hunter, but I am typical of that change. I punch paper maybe once or twice each fall before hitting the woods just to make sure my rifle is sighted in. Although I love the history of muzzleloading on this continent, I don't participate in reenactments or rendezvous or participate in shooting matches. I don't have any issues with these passions, in fact I have all the respect in the world for those who partake and keep that history alive, but it is not my cup of tea. I dare say today the majority of muzzleloading enthusiasts own an in-line, when you boil it all down, to increased hunting opportunity and to put meat on the table.
While the overall number of U.S. hunters has been declining over the past decade, by 5-to 6-percent in some states, and, as has been pointed out in these pages, the average age of NMLRA membership is about 70 years young. Unless we attract the younger generations, a generation that overwhelmingly owns, shoots and hunts with in-lines, and in general prefers an in-line over a more traditional design, membership will continue to decline. There is no other way to replace those lost. The question is, do we let the ship go down, or do we do what is necessary to save it even though we may not like it?
The interesting thing is, as overall hunting numbers in this country have been on the decline the past decade, the number of hunters using muzzleloaders is one of the few bright spots within the industry. According to several references there are some four million hunters in this country that hunt with a muzzleloader, and those same references indicate about 90 percent of them hunt with an in-line.
Rather factually correct or not, when it comes to hunting game the vast majority of hunters these days, young as well as old, choose to carry an in-line to hunt with. And when hunters new to the fold shop for a muzzleloader, when given the choice between a percussion, a flintlock, or an in-line, the vast majority will opt for the in-line. We could discuss the various reasons for this all day long, but the reasons don't really matter. Facts are facts. Whether we want to accept or admit it or not, the younger generation of muzzleloading enthusiasts that this organization needs to attract have a different interest, a different interpretation of what muzzleloading is, and it overwhelmingly includes the in-line. We may not like it but we can accept them and grow, or stick to our guns, reject them and fade into history like the mountain men of old.
Among the reasons I hunt with an in-line is the opportunity to extend my hunting season. In the late 1970's and early 1980's few states offered a specific muzzleloader season despite the fact that muzzleloaders had been around for generations. It wasn't until the mid-1980's and especially in the 90's when in-lines were selling like hot cakes as state after state put a season restricted to muzzleloaders in place. Today, forty-nine states offer at least one muzzleloader season, generally for deer, but in some jurisdictions for elk and other game as well. Montana remains the only holdout and there are calls for a muzzleloader season there. And it's all thanks to the in-line, which is recognized in those forty-nine states as a muzzleloader.
So when you head to the woods this fall during muzzleloading season regardless of the ignition system your rifle has, just remember the odds that are that special time and added opportunity wouldn't be available were it not for the modern muzzleloader. And overall, the interest in muzzleloader hunting wouldn't be as popular as it is without the in-line. This doesn't mean that you have to like in-lines or use one, but it is a reminder of where the primary interest in muzzleloading rests today.
The bottom line is, whether in-line users are welcome into this organization isn't necessarily about change or forgetting our past, but it's more about acceptance. There is room for all muzzleloaders, we can welcome them all and still hold onto the rich history of muzzleloading. My premise is rather simple: If it loads from the muzzle and ignites with a #11 ap, flint or a 209 primer – it is a muzzleloader. Bottom line is the future of this organization is in our hands. We can accept or reject in-lines, but one thing is certain: the inline muzzleloader is here to stay. Hopefully the NMLRA is as well.
MUZZLE BLASTS, July 2017
Muzzleloading Afield
THE QUESTION OF IN-LINES, Written by: Al Raychard
We're going to take a break from our normal hunting related topic this month and address an issue that seems to have spawned controversy within the NMLRA. A great deal has been said about in-lines in these pages recently, and as a supporter of the NMLRA, a contributor to this magazine for nearly three decades, and as an in-line user since they arrived on the scene back in the early 1980's, I thought I would toss in my two cents worth.
Not everyone will agree with what I have to say, but hopefully it will provide some food for serious thoughts because, as the saying goes, a house divided cannot stand, which seems to be where we're headed, and as MB Editor Lee Larkin has recently written, this association could pass out of existence unless membership numbers change. If you don't believe that, perhaps you will recall the total membership back in the 1970's. I don't remember the exact number of members back then, but I'm willing to bet a dollar it was much, much higher than it is now by maybe as much as 10,000 members. That in itself should give us all a reason for concern. It is not that interest in muzzleloading has declined in recent years, in fact it has never been more popular, but rather the interest of today's younger muzzleloader enthusiasts has changed, particularly when it comes to hunting.
Keep in mind, I speak as a hunter, but I am typical of that change. I punch paper maybe once or twice each fall before hitting the woods just to make sure my rifle is sighted in. Although I love the history of muzzleloading on this continent, I don't participate in reenactments or rendezvous or participate in shooting matches. I don't have any issues with these passions, in fact I have all the respect in the world for those who partake and keep that history alive, but it is not my cup of tea. I dare say today the majority of muzzleloading enthusiasts own an in-line, when you boil it all down, to increased hunting opportunity and to put meat on the table.
While the overall number of U.S. hunters has been declining over the past decade, by 5-to 6-percent in some states, and, as has been pointed out in these pages, the average age of NMLRA membership is about 70 years young. Unless we attract the younger generations, a generation that overwhelmingly owns, shoots and hunts with in-lines, and in general prefers an in-line over a more traditional design, membership will continue to decline. There is no other way to replace those lost. The question is, do we let the ship go down, or do we do what is necessary to save it even though we may not like it?
The interesting thing is, as overall hunting numbers in this country have been on the decline the past decade, the number of hunters using muzzleloaders is one of the few bright spots within the industry. According to several references there are some four million hunters in this country that hunt with a muzzleloader, and those same references indicate about 90 percent of them hunt with an in-line.
Rather factually correct or not, when it comes to hunting game the vast majority of hunters these days, young as well as old, choose to carry an in-line to hunt with. And when hunters new to the fold shop for a muzzleloader, when given the choice between a percussion, a flintlock, or an in-line, the vast majority will opt for the in-line. We could discuss the various reasons for this all day long, but the reasons don't really matter. Facts are facts. Whether we want to accept or admit it or not, the younger generation of muzzleloading enthusiasts that this organization needs to attract have a different interest, a different interpretation of what muzzleloading is, and it overwhelmingly includes the in-line. We may not like it but we can accept them and grow, or stick to our guns, reject them and fade into history like the mountain men of old.
Among the reasons I hunt with an in-line is the opportunity to extend my hunting season. In the late 1970's and early 1980's few states offered a specific muzzleloader season despite the fact that muzzleloaders had been around for generations. It wasn't until the mid-1980's and especially in the 90's when in-lines were selling like hot cakes as state after state put a season restricted to muzzleloaders in place. Today, forty-nine states offer at least one muzzleloader season, generally for deer, but in some jurisdictions for elk and other game as well. Montana remains the only holdout and there are calls for a muzzleloader season there. And it's all thanks to the in-line, which is recognized in those forty-nine states as a muzzleloader.
So when you head to the woods this fall during muzzleloading season regardless of the ignition system your rifle has, just remember the odds that are that special time and added opportunity wouldn't be available were it not for the modern muzzleloader. And overall, the interest in muzzleloader hunting wouldn't be as popular as it is without the in-line. This doesn't mean that you have to like in-lines or use one, but it is a reminder of where the primary interest in muzzleloading rests today.
The bottom line is, whether in-line users are welcome into this organization isn't necessarily about change or forgetting our past, but it's more about acceptance. There is room for all muzzleloaders, we can welcome them all and still hold onto the rich history of muzzleloading. My premise is rather simple: If it loads from the muzzle and ignites with a #11 ap, flint or a 209 primer – it is a muzzleloader. Bottom line is the future of this organization is in our hands. We can accept or reject in-lines, but one thing is certain: the inline muzzleloader is here to stay. Hopefully the NMLRA is as well.
