Sen. Lindsey Graham is drafting 'red flag' gun confiscation bill. Every right has its limit say Grah

[WVRifleman]

"No crime, no probable cause, no charge and no right to take firearms away from a law abiding citizen just because some one FEELS UNCOMFORTABLE that some one in their family or neighborhood have guns. Not to mention, in many states you have no right to counsel." What do you call a situation where you have a 15 year old boy, who has some personal/social issues with this fellow school mates, has told a friend that he has a gun and is planning on coming to school to get even? Essentially it is hearsay, from a student, there's been no crime committed and where is your probable cause? Everyone has the right to counsel in every state in this nation, everyone.

As for, "We already have Laws in place to adjudicate Mentally ill people from owning guns. But that's too hard. We need where Joe Blow can disarm you because you got angry." In the original post I wrote, "Rhode Island just introduced the red-flag laws, that "already" were on the books; but, we know how that goes." What I have written here essentially is what you have also written. I feel that no matter what I write you are going to try to over trump me. I too am frightened to witness what is going on within this country, and fear that it is being taken over by radical, left wing liberals whose only goals are to diminish and destroy the U.S. Constitution by using the Constitution and it guarantees against itself. We don't only have 2nd amendment issues in our country. You're worried about gun control, I'm really worried about where our social security system and our MediCare system are going when we have 4000 people a day coming in to this country looking to get a piece of those pies without contributing to it. And.....currently have politicians (political whores) supporting that point of view for votes. This country is in trouble, by the time people wake up the ship will have left the dock and it will be too late! I'm done here, you are entitled your opinions and I am entitled to mine; and, we can agree to disagree. I'm going back to the "Reloading Forum

I agree with most of what you said, but for you to say Some Red Flag Law are good is not right and will never be right or Constitutional in my mind. You can't deny a US Citizen their right because you FEEL unsafe around someone who is angry. and no law has ever been broken, no threat was ever made and no probable cause even comes to play. That's down right dangerous in this country.

My rights Trump your FEELINGS.

How about this one. A kid threatened his class mate in VT no long ago. He said he was going to use his uncle's guns that he never even lived with. The LE confiscated the Uncle's gun and he had no clue what was going on.

You agree with that?

 

[Alibiiv]

"I agree with most of what you said, but for you to say Some Red Flag Law are good is not right and will never be right or Constitutional in my mind." Nope not totally what I am saying. I am saying that some of the elements of the Red Flag laws have some merit. And....there's also a great propensity for these laws to be exploited to a point where they violate a person's second amendment rights, if....there is another agenda other than making it so that person cannot hurt themselves or others. I do not find anything improper in taking a firearm (or any other weapon/object/element/rope/shovel/ax) away from a person who is angry/unstable/acting crazy and is planning on hurting themselves or others; or, even is planning to do so. And seizing someone's possessions can also be a violation of a person's 4th Amendment rights; illegal seizure. As for the Vermont incident that you wrote about, I am not too certain about the circumstances/facts; however, if it happened as you described the incident in your post, I do not like the way that it happened and consider it wrong/improper confiscation of the firearms. Vermont used to be quite liberal with their firearms and 2nd Amendment rights, it appears that those views are changing. So.....nope I don't agree with what happened there at all. To me that act falls within the parameters of extremism that I have written about in previous posts. That incident certainly appears to be "something" other than what the law was intended to do; the fishing expedition I mentioned earlier.

 

[WVRifleman]

I tried to post the story, but this site won't let me for some reason. They call it spam. You will have to Google it I reckon.

One question. Unless that person told you he or she was going to commit a violent act in the future, how do you know it will happen?

I didn't realize LE used crystal balls or are psychic. Predicting crime is not legal, period.No matter how you want to frame it.

 

[jbs2014]

I am pretty sure that the anti-gun side will use the events that occurred this weekend to justify this legislation and other anti-Second Amendment bills.

I have a feeling things are going to get pretty ugly soon. If you have always wanted and AR and have not purchased one I would do it now if I were you.

 

[wbm]

Oh! hell, I never know which side Graham is on.

LOL! Worse than that. Half the time i don't think he does either.
The so called "red flag" laws are a gift to the left...they know all about the law of unintended consequences and they will use it to destroy the 2nd Amendment.

All that will be required in the future is that someone who is out to get you says you are crazy.
We have that "red flag" stuff in New Mexico now and 30 Sheriffs have told the Governor they will not enforce it....one of the reasons is the one i just talked about.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I am pretty sure that the anti-gun side will use the events that occurred this weekend to justify this legislation and other anti-Second Amendment bills.

I have a feeling things are going to get pretty ugly soon. If you have always wanted and AR and have not purchased one I would do it now if I were you.

Agreed. I need a couple more stripped lowers... I'll probably be purchasing them this week.

And after the bumpstock BS, and the ERPO law push, I don't trust Trump not to go along with the Dems and "do something about this problem"... As he stated earlier today. You know, we didn't have this problem before the Dems and PC culture demanded we shut down all the insane asylums and mental health facilities... Where the hell do you think all those people ended up? General population... That's why we have so many crazy people and our rights keep getting stripped from us law-abiding citizens.

People need to sit back and realize just what they have done to create this problem. And what continues to feed it. Social media is a HUGE part of it. Public schools and colleges with brainwashing teachers and professors is another HUGE part of it. When people knew that there was only TWO genders, we didn't have these problems every week. When they started normalizing and pushing things like the homo agenda, that's when these problems started. When every kid didn't have a cell phone and a facebook account, we didn't have these problems. When social media didn't exist, we didn't have these problems.

 

[Rick Richard]

Agreed. I need a couple more stripped lowers... I'll probably be purchasing them this week.

And after the bumpstock BS, and the ERPO law push, I don't trust Trump not to go along with the Dems and "do something about this problem"... As he stated earlier today. You know, we didn't have this problem before the Dems and PC culture demanded we shut down all the insane asylums and mental health facilities... Where the hell do you think all those people ended up? General population... That's why we have so many crazy people and our rights keep getting stripped from us law-abiding citizens.

People need to sit back and realize just what they have done to create this problem. And what continues to feed it. Social media is a HUGE part of it. Public schools and colleges with brainwashing teachers and professors is another HUGE part of it. When people knew that there was only TWO genders, we didn't have these problems every week. When they started normalizing and pushing things like the homo agenda, that's when these problems started. When every kid didn't have a cell phone and a facebook account, we didn't have these problems. When social media didn't exist, we didn't have these problems.

I would also add when parents disciplined their kids and demanded respect. And, how about when society took God and prayer out of the schools and other other public affairs.

 

[Alibiiv]

I totally agree with Rick Richard about disciplining children and blame the parents, or lack thereof parents/father figure in the household. Also I believe that the violent video games that our children are playing creates a situation where they are desensitized to violence and death; and, that these video games creates a atmosphere of curiosity about the same. I believe that the core values that this country was built on are are being eroded daily and that does include removing organized religion and God from our society today. In years ago it was, "If you want to practice organized religion fine, if not that's okay too." Today this has turned in to a situation where it is offensive and then the religion has to be removed from out schools and all public/government buildings.

There's also a lot of misinformation out there in public media; especially about gun violence. I recently did a search on "mass shooting incidents" in the U.S. today. The search came back showing that there had been 249 mass shootings in the U.S. this year. I thought this to be an inordinate amount of shootings and started to read the research data that was provided. The data showed almost all shooting noting to do with mass shootings at all; yet, the shootings were reported as "mass shootings". And yes we have the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of the press, however there's nothing in that amendment that guarantees that the information that the press/pubic media reports has to be true!

 

[Tidus56]

The red flag laws are not good period. They will be used and abused to turn in every Tom, Dick and Harry someone doesn't like.
"Hey hon I am mad at the neighbor for the fence they put up, aren't they gun owners." That's the kind of stuff that it will be used for. If I had to take a wild guess once out of every 100 times it's used it would be used properly. The left wants your guns and they will take them however they can.

 

[KyCarl]

I just ordered 2 Sig Sauer "Bren" style .223 pistols for this very reason!
And 2000 rounds..You can't be too careful! Most likely I'll leave them in their boxes..BUT I have them!

 

[SHDeersniper]

I keep wondering how graham gets reelected each term in south carolina. He has proven on numerous times how big a rhino he really is. Have heard that he frequents barney franks club.

Old people

 

[Twoevilfouryou]

IN Arizona we were glad to see McCain finally be gone, he didn't get the hint when he was running for president and his own state didn't want him to be president.
Unfortunately for us in AZ people are fleeing comunist California and coming to Arizona and trying to turn us into California. Can we wall off California and then sit and watch it destroy it's self like every communist/ socialist does then go in and start over.

 

[JemezDave]

There are about 13-16 states that have a version of these Unconstitutional laws and counting. Wait until Graham start bribing these states to pass ERPO's. What is shocking is that places like CA and IL has had this law for years and no one took them to court? Where in hell is the NRA or even the GOA?


I don't believe in these sanctuary states, counties or cities. It's surrendering our rights and confirms it can be done with out a fight in the state or nationwide under the law of the Constitution. They are very divisive tactics and will not help America as a whole. We need to come together and fight back, not retreat to a special zone. This is no different than Fascist Democrats making free speech zones within college campuses. This is teaching them we can do this anywhere in the US! It's non sense. Fight!

Yeah, and how many of you are NRA members? Every one of you should be IMO. Small price to pay Anyways

 

[338 dude]

I understand what you are saying but if you are threatening some one the police could already take action before red flag laws. That is intent to action and enhances the probable cause, Red Flag laws unconstitutionally goes beyond that. And now shovels are weapons? WOW!

So, just getting angry is now grounds of total disarmament? You don't see a problem with this? That is scary!

"Extreme risk protection orders" / ERPO'S / red flag LAWS are a suspension of the Second Amendment without due process, without probable cause, and, in fact, without any crime at all. They are not Constitutional when they ignore the 1st, 2nd, 4th 5th 6th 8th 9th and 14th Amendments. The courts have not heard these laws yet, unbelievably.
The 9th Amendment says: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
"This means that any rights not mentioned in the Bill of Rights are not to be denied to the people. "The 10th Amendment says: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
"So any powers not specifically given to the Federal government are not powers it can usurp.
"So it's enough to show the Founding Fathers thought we had a right for it to fall under the protection of the 9th or 10th Amendment. This means that the Founders didn't even have to specify we have the right to free speech, religion, jury trials, or anything else. To understand what they felt our rights were, all you had to do was show what they said our rights are. Any rights in the first eight Amendments are just redundant with what the Founding Fathers considered Natural Rights."

As a LEO you took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, Supporting and enforcing these Red Flag laws are not doing that.

I'd rather live in Dangerous freedom then peaceful slavery.

The Red Flag laws are back door confiscation laws and that is plain to see.

Wake up folks!

Extremely well said I am not very good at explaining Or getting my point across so I will rely on what you said I agree 100% more people need to get this out your post is a great example of what I want to say