See a wolf... what would you do?

[jmden]

"I really wish people like yourself would read stuff before they put things like this on a website" -topgun

Ditto....... this is as bad as Peta and their scare tactics. I live about 15 miles from the Baca NWR. there has been a discussion about how to manage the elk/bison population going on for a while now. when dealing with the feds, you have to cross all the T's , so there was one line in a multi page report that mentioned large predators. this refuge was all private property until just about 3 yrs ago, owned by the nature conservancy,(anti hunters) who donated it to the NPS.....for some $$$ considerations. there is a resident herd of as many as 5K elk , depending on the time of year, and a few "feral" bison. the hunters around here are squawking pretty loud about the DOW using this as their private hunting preserve and not allowing the public access. this would disburse the herds just fine, but alot of the ranchers/farmers dont want this because guess where the elk would go? This is in the same general area where there has been a nearly year-round hunting season/damage control hunt with vouchers on private land. it is a shame to see elk being culled in the middle of the summer when their horns are not even fully developed.

there is very little chance the discussion about wolves here will go any further. AJ

dogdinger,

Give us the complete lowdown on the situation down there would you? I'm trying to wrap my head around issues being brought up regarding SFW/BGF and the Baca debacle. Help me out, would you? I don't want to be supporting something I shouldn't be.

 

[dogdinger]

jmden,
as i said, i dont think this discussion about wolves will go any further. the reporter did read that line in the report that stated that this must be considered and started the firestorm with the article.this is only a few thousand acres of farming land here in the center of the san luis valley, surrounding by more farm land and several small towns. if ever there was a place NOT to have wolves, this is it. the only reason the elk are there is just the fact that they have found themselves a nice little spot with plenty of feed and water and no hunting pressure, so they moved in. BGF picked up on this from the news article and ran with it as if it was a done deal. Now they will probably claim credit for stopping something that never was gonna happen. AJ

 

[jmden]

jmden,
as i said, i dont think this discussion about wolves will go any further. the reporter did read that line in the report that stated that this must be considered and started the firestorm with the article.this is only a few thousand acres of farming land here in the center of the san luis valley, surrounding by more farm land and several small towns. if ever there was a place NOT to have wolves, this is it. the only reason the elk are there is just the fact that they have found themselves a nice little spot with plenty of feed and water and no hunting pressure, so they moved in. BGF picked up on this from the news article and ran with it as if it was a done deal. Now they will probably claim credit for stopping something that never was gonna happen. AJ

OK. Thanks for the further clarification. I hate to see BGF lose credibility, but it would appear from you and topgun in this thread that they may have blown this out of proportion. I hope you are right and wolves won't be considered, but on the other hand, I sure don't like that what has appeared to be an organization fighting to control wolves adequately is losing credibility.

It seems to me that BGF is still at the forefront of fighting for true wolf management. Would you agree or not? Would you feel comfortable at this point supporting BGF in its apparent efforts? Why or why not? If you don't feel comfortable answering this here, PM me, would you?

Jon

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Glad to hear that what I stated was backed up by dogdinger who lives right out there! If I might answer from my perspective again, I believe that both the BGF and SFW have lost all credibility with what they say they are doing or have done and what is actually the truth. They intentionally told everyone that they were in favor of the rider that finally got wolves delisted when they were trying to kill it behind closed doors. Then when they couldn't do it and it passed, they took credit for that. Just as dogdinger mentioned at the end of his post, BGF will probably now say they got this wolf introduction stopped in the Baca when it wasn't even talked about other than that one sentence. Even if it was intended it would take years of government red tape and yet Ryan Benson has cried wolf in his email and outright stated in it that wolves would be introduced into the Baca this year. How much more does anyone need to see that these groups are an overall detriment to us, even if they are doing a few good things here and there?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I hate to say I told you so, but it didn't take long! Here is the latest release from Ryan Benson/BGF claiming exactly what dogdinger and I stated yesterday and that is that BGF would claim they were instrumental in stopping the wolf introduction into the Baca! If either BGF or SFW are such a force, doesn't it seem odd that Benson had to get this out of a newspaper and wasn't directly contacted by USFWS if they were the ones who got what wasn't even on the table stopped? What a farce!!!

Here it is:

Folks,
A letter was sent from US Fish and Wildlife Service clearly explaining that NO wolves will be introduced into Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge or other portions of the San Luis Valley. It appears that this letter hit the Colorado press on February 6, 2012.
It's amazing what can happen when sportsmen get ahead of the curve and take action on important issues affecting wildlife. Supporters of Big Game Forever sent over 15,000 messages to members of Congress and the administration expressing their concern about Option "C" that would include the possibility of using Wolves to manage elk on the refuge. Thank you for taking the time to express your concern regarding the idea of introducing wolves into Southern Colorado.

Here is a copy of the letter from USFWS published by the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel on February 6, 2012:

Wolves will not be reintroduced to San Luis Valley

There has been some recent speculation that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service intends to reintroduce wolves in the San Luis Valley to help manage elk and other species. It is important to set the record straight, the service in fact has no plans and no intent to reintroduce wolves in the valley.

The confusion about the service's intent arose from a draft plan to manage overabundant elk populations affecting vital wildlife habitat on the San Luis Valley's National Wildlife Refuges. The draft plan references a suggestion by some members of the public that the service consider wolves as a potential management tool.

By law, the service is required to analyze the comments and suggestions we receive. We do not, however, believe that wolf reintroduction is the appropriate management strategy for this area. We have instead put forward three other options including public hunting, which we believe will help ensure that the wildlife refuges in the San Luis Valley continue to provide high quality habitat for elk and other species — as well as recreational and economic benefits for local communities.

We encourage members of the public and our partners to review and comment on this important draft plan as we work to finalize it over the next two years. We're committed to ensuring that the San Luis Valley's land, water, and wildlife remain the pride of Colorado and the nation for years to come.

STEVE GUERTIN
Regional Director, Mountain-Prairie Region
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Denver
​

 

[jmden]

I hate to say I told you so, but it didn't take long! Here is the latest release from Ryan Benson/BGF claiming exactly what dogdinger and I stated yesterday and that is that BGF would claim they were instrumental in stopping the wolf introduction into the Baca! If either BGF or SFW are such a force, doesn't it seem odd that Benson had to get this out of a newspaper and wasn't directly contacted by USFWS if they were the ones who got what wasn't even on the table stopped? What a farce!!!

Here it is:

Folks,
A letter was sent from US Fish and Wildlife Service clearly explaining that NO wolves will be introduced into Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge or other portions of the San Luis Valley. It appears that this letter hit the Colorado press on February 6, 2012.
It's amazing what can happen when sportsmen get ahead of the curve and take action on important issues affecting wildlife. Supporters of Big Game Forever sent over 15,000 messages to members of Congress and the administration expressing their concern about Option "C" that would include the possibility of using Wolves to manage elk on the refuge. Thank you for taking the time to express your concern regarding the idea of introducing wolves into Southern Colorado.

Here is a copy of the letter from USFWS published by the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel on February 6, 2012:

Wolves will not be reintroduced to San Luis Valley

There has been some recent speculation that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service intends to reintroduce wolves in the San Luis Valley to help manage elk and other species. It is important to set the record straight, the service in fact has no plans and no intent to reintroduce wolves in the valley.

The confusion about the service's intent arose from a draft plan to manage overabundant elk populations affecting vital wildlife habitat on the San Luis Valley's National Wildlife Refuges. The draft plan references a suggestion by some members of the public that the service consider wolves as a potential management tool.

By law, the service is required to analyze the comments and suggestions we receive. We do not, however, believe that wolf reintroduction is the appropriate management strategy for this area. We have instead put forward three other options including public hunting, which we believe will help ensure that the wildlife refuges in the San Luis Valley continue to provide high quality habitat for elk and other species — as well as recreational and economic benefits for local communities.

We encourage members of the public and our partners to review and comment on this important draft plan as we work to finalize it over the next two years. We're committed to ensuring that the San Luis Valley's land, water, and wildlife remain the pride of Colorado and the nation for years to come.

STEVE GUERTIN
Regional Director, Mountain-Prairie Region
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Denver
​

Just got that myself.

I guess I'm just still not completely convinced of your perspective, but it is certainly something I will keep in mind and has, unfortunately in a way, raised my index of suspicion. But, regardless of what we all think, I hope a vibrant discourse will help us all get closer to the truth.

 

[coyotelite]

I would swear it was self defense!gun)gun)

 

[dogdinger]

Jmden,
Been out of town for a bit and just saw your question. I don't know much about BGF to be honest. i am all for any organization that keeps us apprised of issues related to our sport and tries to stay on top of things, but lets be realistic here. Like you said , the whole wolf issue is fraught with such emotion that there would have to be hearings into the next century before it is ever done again.
Personally, I think that the issue of access to our public lands is of paramount importance right now and that is what we need to be fighting for. As you can see from the thread about the ATV access in Co, it is also an emotionally charged issue. What I see happening with this is the old divide and conquer strategy. Get us fighting amongst ourselves about what is right/wrong and then make decisions that hurt us all. AJ

 

[FastDam]

BANG!!!..........bye bye

 

[260James]

Go to Yellowstone and count the number of smaller animals you can see. I know there is still a bunch of Bison , I am talking elk , moose and smaller. Last time i was there , I saw elk in large numbers in Mammoth( in town, No wolves) and saw a few in the western part of the Lamar valley. Maybe 10 or 12. I seen one mule deer in 3 days. I dont know if there are even enough moose left to count a population. Compare those numbers to the the numbers of the year before the feds pet puppies showed up. 19,000 elk in northern yellowstone down to 4,200( official winter count 2010 , go find even a small number out of town ) As far as what i would do if i saw a wolf. Bang flop ,BYE BYE!!!!!! I don't eat dog but sure enjoy elk steaks. 60 million dollars is alot of money to spend of sportsmans money to get rid of some of the finest wild game herds in this country.

 

[260James]

watch the " crying wolf " movie

 

[threejones]

watch the " crying wolf " movie

Crying Wolf is a huge favorite around here! I lived in Belgrade for years, and thus, hit the Park all the time. Now, it's not even the same place. It looks the same, but you see maybe a third the critters you did in the early 90s. Even the amount of deer hit on the roads around there is half what it used to be. Hope it isn't representative of what's to come for the rest of Montana.

Cody

 

[jmden]

Another show, if you guys haven't seen it, is 'Yellowstone is Dead'.

Can be purchased here: Yellowstone is Dead — Welcome

Trailers:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYxGJB5dJxI]Yellowstone is Dead - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhnZvan_uT8]Yellowstone is Dead Theatrical Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

About 2 hours and goes into more worthwhile detail, but is probably harder to follow for the unitiated, than Crying Wolf.

I've got a copy of both shows and loan them out as much as possible. A guy at work who didn't know anything about the wolf controversy actually watched 'Yellowstone is Dead' with me and was ready to contribute on the spot to the Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd:

FOTNYEH - Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd

These guys are trying to take this issue of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd decline, from about 20,000 to about 4,000 head in the past few years clearly at the hands of wolves, all the way to the US Supreme Court. They may just do it. There are some, even here, who may not appreciate some of the main players involved in Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd, but at least they are doing something.

 

[jmden]

The whole 'Crying Wolf' movie can be watched here:

Crying Wolf

Quite a bit of other content at this site as well.

Buy a copy or two and circulate. Get the word out!

Trailers: