Scope Not Level With My Action

[feedjake11]

The easiest and most effective scope alignment method I prefer is to first, level the rifle either off the action rails if using a conventional stock, or the bubble level on my MPA Chassis. Next, I will project the reticle on my wall mounted plum line by shining a light into the front(objective) lens in the scope and align the projected reticle with the plum line. Once aligned, torque the rings and set the scope mounted bubble level(not necessary with chassis mounted bubble level). Even with the top tier scopes, turret tops and reticle alignment should not be assumed to be true. Actual shooting/tall test alignment has proven to be 100% using this method. If the bubble is centered and the reticle plum, the bullet will fly true.....

 

[feedjake11]

How far away is the plum line from the scope or does it not mater?

 

[Brian697]

Great thread! Am fighting this very issue on my Savages.
Aligning the reticle with the plumb line on the wall and then using tape to hold it while tightening certainly would seem to make sense.
Can you elaborate on how you position the light to project the reticle? If the light is not aligned with the centerline of the scope, doesn't it project the reticle at an angle?
Thanks!

 

[Stgraves260]

Wondering if anyone has run into this. I mount my scope and use one of those small levels that fits in the action and then sit a bubble level on the turret of my NXS. I get it so the bubbles match perfect. After shooting it at distance I can tell it's canted. I do a ladder test and confirm it's off.
So I get the gun set up and verify the action is perfectly level. I hang a plumb bob 80 yards away and sure enough its canted at about 11:57. With the bubble on the turret the bubble is touching the line while it's perfectly centered on the action. I checked both bubble levels on two quality levels I use for construction and both were on. I should've gone to the plumb bob to begin with. Is it unusual for a turret on a quality scope to not match the action.

It happens sometimes but not often. Very frustrating.

 

[Marc Gauthier]

Wondering if anyone has run into this. I mount my scope and use one of those small levels that fits in the action and then sit a bubble level on the turret of my NXS. I get it so the bubbles match perfect. After shooting it at distance I can tell it's canted. I do a ladder test and confirm it's off.
So I get the gun set up and verify the action is perfectly level. I hang a plumb bob 80 yards away and sure enough its canted at about 11:57. With the bubble on the turret the bubble is touching the line while it's perfectly centered on the action. I checked both bubble levels on two quality levels I use for construction and both were on. I should've gone to the plumb bob to begin with. Is it unusual for a turret on a quality scope to not match the action.

The important thing is that the reticle is at the level. If, for example, the reticle is 1 inch to the left of the barrel, keep this distance to the target. So for example at 300 yards we would shoot 1 inch to the right to hit the center. In the history of the weapons several riflescopes are mounted like that.

 

[Buster***]

wheeler scope rings alignment tool with lapping compound lets scope fit into rings perfect so that your not forcing it down while tightening.

 

[virginiashooter]

Wondering if anyone has run into this. I mount my scope and use one of those small levels that fits in the action and then sit a bubble level on the turret of my NXS. I get it so the bubbles match perfect. After shooting it at distance I can tell it's canted. I do a ladder test and confirm it's off.
So I get the gun set up and verify the action is perfectly level. I hang a plumb bob 80 yards away and sure enough its canted at about 11:57. With the bubble on the turret the bubble is touching the line while it's perfectly centered on the action. I checked both bubble levels on two quality levels I use for construction and both were on. I should've gone to the plumb bob to begin with. Is it unusual for a turret on a quality scope to not match the action.

 

[SnowbirdUT]

You've got that right! I use Picatinny rails on as many of my beloved possessions as I can. Once it's on and level, the rings come off with the scope-- never just the scope removed and the rings staying attached. It can be expensive, but it bugs the hellsinki out of me to have to fight the scope rolling over when I have to mount it again onto another beloved possession...

I use the same system. I use picatinny rails on all my rifles. I also have a set of rings for each scope (I use Badger Rings). I make sure that the scope is plumb in the rings by using Badger Ordnance Dead Level Reticle Leveling tool


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1008828942?pid=336934

I also mount my level on my picatinny rail. Once I know that the scope reticle is level and it is mounted to the rail, and then the rail is level, I am good to go.

I never remove the rings from my scopes once they are set.

 

[gilk1]

Putting a level on your turret or action is pointless. Align your reticle with the centerline of the action by eye - you will be within 1-2deg. Tighten it down and don't bother it. Now you place a permanent scope/reticle level on your scope and shoot a tall target test at a range measured very precisely with a steel tape. This allows you to plumb the reticle and measure your scope turret error in one setting. It is infinitely more important that the reticle is plum with gravity than aligned to the bore axis. I'll prove it (see attached diagram):

Scenario 1: Your scope is 10deg canted to the bore axis but is plumb. The horizontal poi shift due to that cant @1000YDS (expressed as x & h is scope height) is
x=htan(theta)=2.5"tan(10deg)=0.44"
And this is true at all ranges.

Scenario 2: Your reticle is aligned to the bore but is canted 1deg to true plumb.The horizontal poi shift due to that cant @1000YDS (expressed as x & h is scope adjustment of 30moa) is
x=hsin(theta)=314.1"sin(1deg)=5.48". And this doesn't include the vertical poi shift.

So you see the cant of a reticle to the bore is inconsequential and the cant of the reticle to gravity is critical at extended ranges (124.5 times more critical).

 

[virginiashooter]

Put the gun in a secure gun vise. Remove the top rings and the scope. Put an accurate machinists level across the bottom ring saddles. Adjust the rifle until it is level and secure it.

Replace scope and top rings. Put the level on the top turret. Apply a small amount of non hardening loctite to the screws. Start the screws. Carefully adjust for eye relief. SLOWLY tighten screws in an x pattern, paying close attention to the level until the screws are precisely torqued to spec, and the level is perfectly centered.

You scope is now leveled properly, and unless you bend something, it will stay that way.

BTW, when adjusting eye relief, wear appropriate clothing for when you anticipate using the gun.

 

[Unoboats]

Wondering if anyone has run into this. I mount my scope and use one of those small levels that fits in the action and then sit a bubble level on the turret of my NXS. I get it so the bubbles match perfect. After shooting it at distance I can tell it's canted. I do a ladder test and confirm it's off.
So I get the gun set up and verify the action is perfectly level. I hang a plumb bob 80 yards away and sure enough its canted at about 11:57. With the bubble on the turret the bubble is touching the line while it's perfectly centered on the action. I checked both bubble levels on two quality levels I use for construction and both were on. I should've gone to the plumb bob to begin with. Is it unusual for a turret on a quality scope to not match the action.

Be sure with the wheeler level on a Rem action pull bolt out and attach level at rear of action not inside of action, only real level attachment point.

 

[gilk1]

The important thing is that the reticle is at the level. If, for example, the reticle is 1 inch to the left of the barrel, keep this distance to the target. So for example at 300 yards we would shoot 1 inch to the right to hit the center. In the history of the weapons several riflescopes are mounted like that.

If this is the case you can create a different/angular error at every range that would need to be accounted for if you correct the poi at a specific range. In this case, you would want to leave the poi 1" right at all ranges.

 

[pjmdy]

When I mount scope rings, after achieving what appears to be level, I use the same method for mounting tires to a car. If you have four screws (or six)per mount post, tighten them in opposite corners, ie., upper left, bottom right, then upper right and bottom left. I then hand tighten snug, and finish up with the Fat Wrench torque wrench. Don't forget your blue thread loctite!

 

[Gcan]

I'm not sure this is the place for this subject: not all right/left POI shift is scope related.
I actually built a very precise adj fixture for Setting plumb on a scope. I can dial neg or *** roll to seconds.

Barrel indexing must always be considered. You can have a scope dialed in exactly 00.00.00 and still have right/left POI shift at distances. This is particularly true of Rems and other off the shelf OEM guns. Also true for many so called "Custom" guns built by ppl who think action/chamber alignment only. Every barrel bore has a bow in it. No bore is perfectly straight. Even with the barrel chambered and mated to the action perfectly, if the muzzle/bore variation is not indexed perfectly in the vertical alignment then a 100 yard windage zero can be off by MOAs at 1000 yards with a perfectly set up scope. In other words the scope is tracking 6 to 12 O'clock but the muzzle is pointed 7 to 2 O'clock. Your POI will be farther to the right the farther you shoot.

I use my jig to align the scope to where the gun prints. If I'm level but the gun shoots 1 moa right at 1000 I use my jig to move the scope to match the barrel.