Scope Not Level With My Action

[crkckr]

I have a plumb bob on a string that hangs from the center of my 25 and 100 yard target stands. I line my targets up using the string, so I always have my targets aligned. I can line up my crosshairs with other targets and know I'm not canting the rifle while I'm shooting from my bench.

I can use the same string to align the crosshairs while installing a scope, too. I can drive a small nail or staple and put a horizontal string up as well. With bolt removed and my eyes closed, I'll line the rifle up to what feels right, then check alignment through the scope & barrel. Usually it's way off the first few times I try it but it gets dialed in eventually. Getting the strings aligned perfectly means the crosshairs will also be perfectly aligned. Once everything is done & torqued down, I'll shoot a box to make sure everything is still right. And once all that is done, disturbing the rings is something I avoid like the plague!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[5.56×250]

Some rings are much worse than other on pinching the scope tube and rolling the recticle while its tightened. I always get eye relief set on loose rings, then eyeball close to level while tightening the rings EVENLY till I get to the point that there is a fair amount of resistance to turning the scope in the rings. Then I level the scope . Once the scope is level with my pic rail, I tighten the rings in TINY increments , back and forth across the rings. I'm talking maybe 1/16th turn at a time till I'm satisfied with the tension on the rings .
I used the feeler gauge trick on my last mount job like Remmy suggested earlier in this tread. I will be using this method from now on when I have a pic rail and a scope with a nice flat at the bottom of the turret housing. I like the mechanical leveling more so than bubble levels. Just seems like a more solid way to measure than those floating bubbles ! Lol

 

[gilk1]

It's important to note that the tracking in some scopes might not be perfectly inline with the vertical reticle stadia. That's why it's important to shoot the tall target test and level the reticle travel, not the reticle itself. Unless you only hold over then it's up you but I'd probably use that scope as a boat anchor and buy a better one.

 

[Brian697]

The distance to the wall/plum line is generally 3-5Ft. I use a fairly bright LED flashlight. You can use the power ring and focus....f necessary to sharpen and size the image, which will project upside down. I align my rifle at a 90 degree angle by eye and have had no issues with alignment/results. Positioning the flashlight properly is important, and holding it in place with some masking take helps, as does making sure the room is dark enough to view the image.

Thank you, Greyfox!

 

[436]

Wondering if anyone has run into this. I mount my scope and use one of those small levels that fits in the action and then sit a bubble level on the turret of my NXS. I get it so the bubbles match perfect. After shooting it at distance I can tell it's canted. I do a ladder test and confirm it's off.
So I get the gun set up and verify the action is perfectly level. I hang a plumb bob 80 yards away and sure enough its canted at about 11:57. With the bubble on the turret the bubble is touching the line while it's perfectly centered on the action. I checked both bubble levels on two quality levels I use for construction and both were on. I should've gone to the plumb bob to begin with. Is it unusual for a turret on a quality scope to not match the action.

If you want to do it right try using one of these.
EXD ENGINEERING - VERTICAL RETICLE INSTRUMENT
Used with a plumb bob line at about 15 to 20 yards it's bulletproof.
I didn't read all the way through the other answers, someone may have already brought this up. Good luck

 

[Alibiiv]

If you want to do it right try using one of these.
EXD ENGINEERING - VERTICAL RETICLE INSTRUMENT
Used with a plumb bob line at about 15 to 20 yards it's bulletproof.
I didn't read all the way through the other answers, someone may have already brought this up. Good luck

View attachment 147174 View attachment 147175

How is the fixture held in place while the crosshairs are being aligned? Does the compound level in front of the scope that is on the barrel also come with the system? Curious if it is needed? It looks like a really foolproof system. We've been using a Wheeler leveling system, it's "okay" but....there's a lot room for error, this system appears to eliminate leveling the receiver that can be a real challenge. I think the system is worth the $57 and will be buying one for my rifles. Thanks for the photograph and for sharing.

 

[Gcan]

So you're rotating the scope to account for perceived barrel warp? Won't that affect your vertical poi? Of course it will. Unless I'm misunderstanding, and correct me if I am, you're correcting for an immeasurable and possibly nonexistent problem in one direction and introducing a definite/measurable error in another direction.

No. Thats not true. The center of the Crosshair is zero (100 yrds) therefore u could rotate the scope 45 degrees and the 100 yrd zero would remain zero. I'm simply setting the scope to mirror where the barrel shoots. Virtually no barrel is indexed at 0.00.00. 99.9% Of barrels will shoot right or left of plumb. It's physics.

How then can a scope set to absolute plumb track with a barrel set at .0.02? Or -.0.02? The gun is going to shoot where the gun shoots not where a level says it should shoot.

 

[Gcan]

How do you correct this situation? This would require skewing the scope to match the bore curve, would it not? And how do you discern poi shift due to bore curve at that distance from spin or wind drift, parallax error, mirage, etc.? The error from 1deg of barrel curve at 1000yds from a rifle with a 26"barrel and 100yd zero is only 0.33moa (see attachment). That seems irrelevant and unmeasurable to me.

Like I said, I'm not certain this is the place for this.

The simple explanation is we are centering and plumbing our scopes to an action. That gives a vertical plane that is not on the same plane as the barrel. While the two x-y planes intersect at a theoretical zero (100 yards) they diverge from then on. The POA and POI grow increasingly further apart as distances increase. All I'm doing is setting the erector XY to the Barrel XY.
Yes, movements are impossibly small. Yes spin drift is a factor, hence the fixture and movements in tenths.
My scopes track 0/0 in the vertical.

 

[OutLawJoec]

I might help if you check your scope base to see if it's level in front and back. I found that if your rail is not machined on the action that when you attach a rail you should check to see if it's level front to back. Do this by either installing one screw forward or back hand tight and see if your rail is level. If not then you'll have to bed your rail before you install your scope. If you don't then the possibility exists that your rail will be twisted as you torque it down and that will torque/twist your scope tube when you install the rings.

 

[436]

How is the fixture held in place while the crosshairs are being aligned? Does the compound level in front of the scope that is on the barrel also come with the system? Curious if it is needed? It looks like a really foolproof system. We've been using a Wheeler leveling system, it's "okay" but....there's a lot room for error, this system appears to eliminate leveling the receiver that can be a real challenge. I think the system is worth the $57 and will be buying one for my rifles. Thanks for the photograph and for sharing.

Alibiiv,
The system EXD is adjustable for up and down the EXD part(s) there is a "V" upside down'..., set the "V" on the scope bell, as I said it slides up and down by losing the screw. The part (body) that holds the level bubble with the "V" also has a "V" in it, it sets on the barrel, so you are adjusting it so that both "V's" are sitting on the scope bell and barrel. Put up your plumb bob line (15 yards) and bring the bubble on the level, by canting the rifle left our right, once the rifle is level; slowly rotate the scope alining it with the plumb bob line. That will l level the scope and rifle.

As for the compound-levels it's not used to level the scope it's used to bring the bore of the rifle (on some rifles) to a level position so I can set the zero on the angle cosine indicator from Sniper Tools Design Co. which I never leave home without. With that said, I also use an polished straight arbor in the bore just under bore dimensions with a magnet bubble level that's sitting on it, when I don't have an arbor of the same caliber I use a magnetic bubble level that attaches to the front of the muzzle and bore, Flatline Ops true bore angle cosine indicator set-up bore level device which is actually made for the cosine device setup, but there are many ways to skin this cat.

 

[Alibiiv]

I might help if you check your scope base to see if it's level in front and back. I found that if your rail is not machined on the action that when you attach a rail you should check to see if it's level front to back. Do this by either installing one screw forward or back hand tight and see if your rail is level. If not then you'll have to bed your rail before you install your scope. If you don't then the possibility exists that your rail will be twisted as you torque it down and that will torque/twist your scope tube when you install the rings.

I'm not too certain about this?? Will this happen if the scope rings are lapped after the scope base/s are torqued in place, I do not see how that could be possible???? Just curious. With the exception of just a couple of my rifles, most of them are all Ruger 77s with integral scope bases. I always lap the rings in, have never really encountered any problems other than the rings being out of round. And I really like that EXD Engineering tool, that one is hard to beat no matter how warped the scope base may be. IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[436]

I'm not too certain about this?? Will this happen if the scope rings are lapped after the scope base/s are torqued in place, I do not see how that could be possible???? Just curious. With the exception of just a couple of my rifles, most of them are all Ruger 77s with integral scope bases. I always lap the rings in, have never really encountered any problems other than the rings being out of round. And I really like that EXD Engineering tool, that one is hard to beat no matter how warped the scope base may be. IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, in order to use the style of scope level device I showed you, you do have to loosen the rings clamping so you can turn the scope. But, if nothing else... by using it as things are it will tell you how fare off if any your scope level is on the plumb bob line. Lapping affects nothing in this case, other than giving you a better fit, scope to rings. Your bases are torqued down, that's fine... you're only loosening the top of the rings so you can turn the scope if I understand the question. I've used this method for many years in setting my scope(s) and I have never had a problem.

 

[barrelnut50]

If you want to do it right try using one of these.
EXD ENGINEERING - VERTICAL RETICLE INSTRUMENT
Used with a plumb bob line at about 15 to 20 yards it's bulletproof.
I didn't read all the way through the other answers, someone may have already brought this up. Good luck

View attachment 147174 View attachment 147175

I used to do it this way - but it takes three tools (EXD tool, level, and plumb line). Now I use the RingTrue Alignment Tool. It's cheaper ($40) than the EXD tool and does the work of the three tools shown in 436's photo.
https://www.highpoweroptics.com/ringtrue™-reticle-alignment-tool-p-30656.html