Rainorshine
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2014
- Messages
- 14
Great! We need to let Savage know. Cut off an inch, check the group size, cut off another....Oh oh...where did I leave the duct tape?
Savage B.Mag 17 Winchester Super Mag Teardown
- Thread starter Nimrodmar10
- Start date
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so i took a bmag on trade a week or so ago and had done limited research on them, got it home put groups like this down range and was less than thrilled about it
so i spent hours doing research and was a bit worried, took every ones "fixes" and tried some of them, putting pressure between the barrel and front of the stock made things worse. so i got to thinking about how i can bed the action
then i took some 1/8 inch thick adhesive backed craft foam and cut it into 5 1x3 inch strips and stacked them up then placed them on the rear most point of the front of the stock ( in front of the front action screw) put it back together and torqued it down, let it compress over night and snugged it a bit more in the morning
went out and put 5 rounds down the cold barrel, heres the result
now this thing is more accurate as i am, as it should be
btw this is the stainless heavy barrel shooting the 20gr rounds and both groups are 100 yards
so i spent hours doing research and was a bit worried, took every ones "fixes" and tried some of them, putting pressure between the barrel and front of the stock made things worse. so i got to thinking about how i can bed the action
then i took some 1/8 inch thick adhesive backed craft foam and cut it into 5 1x3 inch strips and stacked them up then placed them on the rear most point of the front of the stock ( in front of the front action screw) put it back together and torqued it down, let it compress over night and snugged it a bit more in the morning
went out and put 5 rounds down the cold barrel, heres the result
now this thing is more accurate as i am, as it should be
btw this is the stainless heavy barrel shooting the 20gr rounds and both groups are 100 yards
Last edited:
HntWhtTail
Well-Known Member
Quick follow up bedded the action and floated the barrel on the heavy barrel in a boyds tacticool, with same old lot of 20gr ammo I am able to get 1/2" 3 and 5 shot groups, still get random flyer but I wasnt trying that hard just a fun day at the range wasting ammo. Sorry no pic as my son through away the targets.... shot a tennis ball hit every shot from 50 to 150 maybe 10 shots total. Finally a working rifle bring on the coyotes.....and some 25gr ammo to try
oregonreloader
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2013
- Messages
- 52
I see that my last post on the .17WSM was at the end of May of 2014. In reviewing some of the earlier posts and the posts subsequent to my last one (May 28th) it would appear that 1) the SS bull barrel version of the B.MAG is a good shooter out of the box, 2) shortening the barrel improves the accuracy and, 3) the blued B.MAG barrel appears to be thinner that the barrels of similar caliber.
While there are reports that "bedding" the barrel in various magical ways has improved the accuracy, the "bedding" solution and the three 'truisms' above suggest to me that the fundamental problem is the barrel was not designed to properly deal with the resonances that occur when a shot is fired. Aussiecritter "tuned" his barrel by shortening it, likely placing the vibration modes and/or resonant frequencies into a region where accuracy was not degraded.
I decided continued efforts to improve the accuracy of my B.MAG were wasting my time with respect to any advantage gained. I swapped my B.MAG for a Model 25 in .17 Hornet last June.
I look forward to reading these posts to see if someone finds a "fix-one, fix-all" solution to the accuracy problem. If someone does, he (or she) will be a hero to this community.
While there are reports that "bedding" the barrel in various magical ways has improved the accuracy, the "bedding" solution and the three 'truisms' above suggest to me that the fundamental problem is the barrel was not designed to properly deal with the resonances that occur when a shot is fired. Aussiecritter "tuned" his barrel by shortening it, likely placing the vibration modes and/or resonant frequencies into a region where accuracy was not degraded.
I decided continued efforts to improve the accuracy of my B.MAG were wasting my time with respect to any advantage gained. I swapped my B.MAG for a Model 25 in .17 Hornet last June.
I look forward to reading these posts to see if someone finds a "fix-one, fix-all" solution to the accuracy problem. If someone does, he (or she) will be a hero to this community.
oregonreloader
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2013
- Messages
- 52
I haven't seen or heard ANYTHING about the B.MAG since around the middle of last summer. I'm wondering if it has become an orphan gun and no one wants to adopt it?
oregonreloader
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2013
- Messages
- 52
I haven't heard ANYTHING about the B.MAG since around the middle of last summer. I'm wondering if it has become an orphan gun in that no one wants to adopt it?
Eric Mayer
Member
Savage released a heavy barrel stainless B.MAG rifle earlier this year, along with a Cabela's only version that has a heavy barrel blue fluted barrel.
Every rifle being shipping currently now has a 1:8 twist barrel.
Hornady announced that they will be offering the 20 grain 17WSM in their line-up come 2015.
Franklin Armory's F17-L AR15 rifle has been out for a couple of months and is doing well (available at Cabela's, along with other firearm retailers). They also announced a less-expensive version about a month ago.
Ammo is pretty much everywhere now, so the "shortage" that people were experiencing before is no longer an issue.
Eric
Every rifle being shipping currently now has a 1:8 twist barrel.
Hornady announced that they will be offering the 20 grain 17WSM in their line-up come 2015.
Franklin Armory's F17-L AR15 rifle has been out for a couple of months and is doing well (available at Cabela's, along with other firearm retailers). They also announced a less-expensive version about a month ago.
Ammo is pretty much everywhere now, so the "shortage" that people were experiencing before is no longer an issue.
Eric
Old shooter/New member/first post
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic. 34 pages was quite a read, but now I know I didn't get the one gun that was built from discarded, out of spec parts. I picked up my Savage B. Mag Saturday and have been dumbfounded by all the issues I've had. I own a number of Savages, everything from a 93 in 17 HMR, on up to their F class 6.5x284. Going forward, I can't imagine I could still recommend a Savage without words of caution and a tale of woe. What were/are they thinking?
My issues are pretty much the same as your issues, and Savage's site reports the production of my gun by serial number was in January 2014. It doesn't appear they made any attempt to fix known issues, but continued to build and ship guns despite what they knew or should have known. I wish I'd done my homework, but I relied on prior experience with a number of good Savages.
My issues so far:
A stock curve causes contact at the left end of the forearm. I was able to correct this by inserting a folded piece of heavy card stock between the contact side of the barrel and the stock, then leaving it under a heat vent overnight. There is another point of contact at the bottom of the barrel about 2/3rds the distance from the muzzle I haven't addressed.
When I was learning my way around the gun with manual in hand, I was able to release the front of the trigger guard/bottom cover with a screwdriver as described, but the rear seemed stuck and I wasn't sure if I needed more lifting pressure or forward pressure when it came off all at once. The front caught the low side of my index finger and "tink!", that was all it took to snap the two arms between the front and rear pieces of that part. I wish I'd looked closer to see if it was already cracked when I lifted the front of it, but who thinks to do that when you're not anticipating a problem?
Next, I tried loading the magazine. At first I couldn't get a round in, but with some mag shaking and tapping I was able to load a round, then a second round without an issue, but not a third round. The rotary mag won't rotate after two rounds are loaded. I called Savage - they were accommodating and the part that broke and a new mag are on the way.
I got a new one piece rail from diproductsinc.com, a 4-16x Vortex Viper, (on sale at MidwayUSA,) plus a set of Weaver tac rings, so I was anxious to try this rig out even if I had to hand feed the rounds for now. (I was planning on the purchase of a 17wsm for some time, so I started buying a box at a time from Cabela's a long time ago. 17 wsm is still between rare and impossible to find in Missouri, and 1 box at a time, plus shipping, ain't cheap :-/ )
My first shot failed to fire and my first extract failed to eject. It pulled the round from the chamber but dropped it on top of the mag. Unlike any other bolt guns I own, I've learned this one needs a swift pull with follow through to the bolt stop for it to clear. Out of my first and only 10 rounds in the gun, I had two failures to fire despite what appears to be an okay strike on the rim.
Groups: The first 3 rounds you couldn't call a group. If they were holes on a map they'd be over seas destinations, but I could adjust the new scope upward so everything was on paper, clean the barrel and try again. I had a substantial improvement with my next two shots but this isn't saying much - about a two inch spread at just 50 yards. I cleaned the barrel again and hope springs eternal! My next two hits are hard to see from the bench, even at 16x, but dang if I'm not nearly zeroed with two hits a quarter inch apart! And then my last shot... who knows? The round went off but doesn't appear to have hit the paper? Ugh. Now that's a first for me.
I don't know what I'll do next other than wait for the new mag and try again before trying to decide anything. The good news is that my search found these issues already in discussion and put me in good company. It sounds like a replacement heavy barrel and Boyd stock are considerations - I'm just not sure if it would be throwing good money after bad.
Again, thanks to all who have participated in this discussion so far. It's good to know I wasn't singled out to be pranked by Savage!
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic. 34 pages was quite a read, but now I know I didn't get the one gun that was built from discarded, out of spec parts. I picked up my Savage B. Mag Saturday and have been dumbfounded by all the issues I've had. I own a number of Savages, everything from a 93 in 17 HMR, on up to their F class 6.5x284. Going forward, I can't imagine I could still recommend a Savage without words of caution and a tale of woe. What were/are they thinking?
My issues are pretty much the same as your issues, and Savage's site reports the production of my gun by serial number was in January 2014. It doesn't appear they made any attempt to fix known issues, but continued to build and ship guns despite what they knew or should have known. I wish I'd done my homework, but I relied on prior experience with a number of good Savages.
My issues so far:
A stock curve causes contact at the left end of the forearm. I was able to correct this by inserting a folded piece of heavy card stock between the contact side of the barrel and the stock, then leaving it under a heat vent overnight. There is another point of contact at the bottom of the barrel about 2/3rds the distance from the muzzle I haven't addressed.
When I was learning my way around the gun with manual in hand, I was able to release the front of the trigger guard/bottom cover with a screwdriver as described, but the rear seemed stuck and I wasn't sure if I needed more lifting pressure or forward pressure when it came off all at once. The front caught the low side of my index finger and "tink!", that was all it took to snap the two arms between the front and rear pieces of that part. I wish I'd looked closer to see if it was already cracked when I lifted the front of it, but who thinks to do that when you're not anticipating a problem?
Next, I tried loading the magazine. At first I couldn't get a round in, but with some mag shaking and tapping I was able to load a round, then a second round without an issue, but not a third round. The rotary mag won't rotate after two rounds are loaded. I called Savage - they were accommodating and the part that broke and a new mag are on the way.
I got a new one piece rail from diproductsinc.com, a 4-16x Vortex Viper, (on sale at MidwayUSA,) plus a set of Weaver tac rings, so I was anxious to try this rig out even if I had to hand feed the rounds for now. (I was planning on the purchase of a 17wsm for some time, so I started buying a box at a time from Cabela's a long time ago. 17 wsm is still between rare and impossible to find in Missouri, and 1 box at a time, plus shipping, ain't cheap :-/ )
My first shot failed to fire and my first extract failed to eject. It pulled the round from the chamber but dropped it on top of the mag. Unlike any other bolt guns I own, I've learned this one needs a swift pull with follow through to the bolt stop for it to clear. Out of my first and only 10 rounds in the gun, I had two failures to fire despite what appears to be an okay strike on the rim.
Groups: The first 3 rounds you couldn't call a group. If they were holes on a map they'd be over seas destinations, but I could adjust the new scope upward so everything was on paper, clean the barrel and try again. I had a substantial improvement with my next two shots but this isn't saying much - about a two inch spread at just 50 yards. I cleaned the barrel again and hope springs eternal! My next two hits are hard to see from the bench, even at 16x, but dang if I'm not nearly zeroed with two hits a quarter inch apart! And then my last shot... who knows? The round went off but doesn't appear to have hit the paper? Ugh. Now that's a first for me.
I don't know what I'll do next other than wait for the new mag and try again before trying to decide anything. The good news is that my search found these issues already in discussion and put me in good company. It sounds like a replacement heavy barrel and Boyd stock are considerations - I'm just not sure if it would be throwing good money after bad.
Again, thanks to all who have participated in this discussion so far. It's good to know I wasn't singled out to be pranked by Savage!
oregonreloader
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2013
- Messages
- 52
Mo Shooter,
Welcome to the "tales of woes thread". I am, frankly surprised, that after all the early problems Savage B.MAG owners had, they continued to produce a flawed rifle. To me, as you describe, this *** did not seem to be a Savage-quality rifle. And to not address the most basic of problems after almost two years in production, such as the ones you've described is a little shocking.
Before I sent mine back for the fourth and final time, I had experienced almost all of the problems you have been seeing. Just as others here had been experiencing. When I was actively trying to tune the rifle--thinking that after just one more trip to Savage, all would be well--I followed this thread daily. I commiserated with the guys having the same problems.
My solution was that by the time I'd sent it back three times, I had established a pretty good relationship with the customer service lady, Debbie Roberts. She seemed to understand, but also understandingly never admitted that it was...well, not a quality product. She told me she would swap my B.MAG *** (my words, not hers) for a .223 or .17 Hornet Model 25. I've got a couple of .223s so I accepted the .17 Hornet. It's a good shooter. And I finally got some brass and some AA1680 powder, so I can load to my heart's content and not worry about buying ammo.
When I actually received the M25 from Debbie, I sent her a $85 bouquet of flowers. She was very nice, patient and helpful to me and the M25 was a gracious exchange. And a step up. So I figured the flowers was the least I could do.
If I were you, I wouldn't invest any more time in the B.MAG. Talk to your newest best friend at Savage and ask if you can exchange it for something else. If she says "yes", then thank her with a little gift for her consideration. You'll feel better and she'll feel a lot better. And after your B.MAG departs, all your worries will melt away.
Welcome to the "tales of woes thread". I am, frankly surprised, that after all the early problems Savage B.MAG owners had, they continued to produce a flawed rifle. To me, as you describe, this *** did not seem to be a Savage-quality rifle. And to not address the most basic of problems after almost two years in production, such as the ones you've described is a little shocking.
Before I sent mine back for the fourth and final time, I had experienced almost all of the problems you have been seeing. Just as others here had been experiencing. When I was actively trying to tune the rifle--thinking that after just one more trip to Savage, all would be well--I followed this thread daily. I commiserated with the guys having the same problems.
My solution was that by the time I'd sent it back three times, I had established a pretty good relationship with the customer service lady, Debbie Roberts. She seemed to understand, but also understandingly never admitted that it was...well, not a quality product. She told me she would swap my B.MAG *** (my words, not hers) for a .223 or .17 Hornet Model 25. I've got a couple of .223s so I accepted the .17 Hornet. It's a good shooter. And I finally got some brass and some AA1680 powder, so I can load to my heart's content and not worry about buying ammo.
When I actually received the M25 from Debbie, I sent her a $85 bouquet of flowers. She was very nice, patient and helpful to me and the M25 was a gracious exchange. And a step up. So I figured the flowers was the least I could do.
If I were you, I wouldn't invest any more time in the B.MAG. Talk to your newest best friend at Savage and ask if you can exchange it for something else. If she says "yes", then thank her with a little gift for her consideration. You'll feel better and she'll feel a lot better. And after your B.MAG departs, all your worries will melt away.
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
Oregonreloader, it is great that you finally had a good outcome, but that advice is of little use when these rifles are specially purchased to comply with game laws for night hunting of coyotes or other varmints. I would vastly prefer to use a 223 or even the 44 mag carbine I use in deer season, but the law says rimfire or birdshot only. The 17WSM was exactly what people in our situation were looking for, on paper - at least... Seriously doubt that Savage is now going to re-design the piece of crap, given that they have kept building it as it is for as long as they have.
It also seems to be nearly impossible to get the heavier 25gr ammo needed for coyotes, whereas the 20 gr is somewhat available for a price at least equal to 223 or potentially higher, and its not even reloadable... What a joke...
It also seems to be nearly impossible to get the heavier 25gr ammo needed for coyotes, whereas the 20 gr is somewhat available for a price at least equal to 223 or potentially higher, and its not even reloadable... What a joke...
my bmag kicks butt. I shot a hog with it the other day. blew half its face off with a head shot. accurate and I know how to eliminate the flyers. I actually hunt exclusively with the bmag over my 223 and mini 14. im stoked. yet, its unfortunate others are not having similar success.
