Savage B.Mag 17 Winchester Super Mag Teardown

[oregonreloader]

Paulatgis...it's great news that you "...know how to eliminate the flyers." Would you care to share your secret? I'm sure there are many B.MAG owners out here in the sticks that would love to know how to do what you have done.

 

[paulatgis]

whenever you put pressure on the front end of the stock it flexes during firing. it flexes in the same direction. I move way forward on sandbags for range shooting and only hold close to the trigger while hunting.

I just viewed all the shot pictures in this thread and those with fliers show a preferred radial direction (all upper left, lower left, whatever) which is what I noticed on mine. they were always upper right. that meant a consistent flex in the stock at its thinnest point while firing. one could actually test by filling the space between the barrel and stock completely eliminating the flex (no longer floating barrel) and grouping / fliers would change from a preferred radial direction to a random pattern.

 

[paulatgis]

now AussieCritter gave us all the necessary clues when shortening his barrel versus those using a wood boyds stock. a wood boyds stock will have the same vibrational standing wave, just dampened. the stock length never changed. shortening the barrel extended the standing wave, lets see if I remember physics - nope, ill just guess. shortening the barrel pushed the standing wave beyond the fore end of the flexy stock; the wave could not amplify enough to flex the stock while firing.

 

[paulatgis]

have you ever noticed how the bmag sings when fired. tingggggg, that's the frequency. its like a tuning fork. none of my other rifles do that so pronounced. what could be a solution? change the tune with a dampener. clamp a weight, for experiment, to the barrel. eliminate that tinggggg. I think the archers do that with their bow strings.

anyways, this is mostly theoretical until I can get to the range. im taking it hog hunting in the morning with a buddy. wish me luck finding hogs. the bmag will take care of the rest.

 

[paulatgis]

now the good news is that hornady is making wsm ammo, hornady / cci of course, and what better opportunity to capitalize on a market of 99% savage bmags. they have the answer.

when a shell ignites you have to consider the ignition rate. Winchesters wsm ignition predated savages bmag barrel. hornady's wont - they'll dominate the market. the ignition of the shell can be, how do I put this without a picture, multiphased or bimodal distributed. it happens so fast a bimodal ignition wont matter, except for that frequency. tingggg. their ammo will cancel out that standing wave. hornady is positioned to dominate the wsm market, until Winchester weighs their lost revenue against redevelopment of their wsm powder ignition rates.

its all a cleverly played game of chess. hornady/cci always had a solution, but to introduce it too early would shorten the grievances of Winchester customers. holding back a few yearly quarters on the solution ammo promotes deep brand recognition benefiting hornady, not just for the wsm but other calipers as well.

think about it. what company dominates 17 caliper rimfire ammo? hornady/cci with the hmr. they rule the 17 caliper research and development. check mate.

 

[hammer111]

Wouldn't holding back the research and development to dominate the market hurt sales of the gun with negative publicity, there by killing sales of the gun. No gun , no ammo.

 

[MoShooter]

Wouldn't holding back the research and development to dominate the market hurt sales of the gun with negative publicity, there by killing sales of the gun. No gun , no ammo.

Agree, I think sales of the gun has already been hurt by the unavailability of ammo. I held off on the gun purchase until I'd acquired a supply. What I didn't know was the early barrels with a 1:9 twist would do poorly with 25 grain rounds, and that's most of what I have.

I received a replacement mag for the original that wouldn't load more than two rounds, and the new one has the exact same issue! It's difficult to get the first round in, the second one goes in fine, but after that the rotary mag won't turn. When I called Savage again, I was better prepared to enumerate the gun's issues. UPS has since picked up the gun for return to factory.

While discussing the second mag with customer service, I inquired about the possibility of having the gun re-barreled with their new bull barrel. The problem at present is they don't have any inventory of barrels and are waiting on a part to resume production. I was told it could be many, many months before they have a supply of barrels. It didn't really occur to me until I was off the phone that I really need a barrel that plays well with 25 grain ammo because that's most of what I have. After buying some 20 and some 25 grain ammo one box at a time, I was finally comfortable buying the gun when I scored a brick, (500 rounds,) of 25 grain ammo. (I have more invested in ammo than the gun itself.) I might call them back and agree to just wait for a 1:8 barrel, even if it means I don't see the gun again until spring :-(

CCI has stated it intends to begin production of 17 wsm in 2015, but no one can tell me when in 2015. Considering very little .22 CCI rimfire is showing up in quantities sellers can keep in stock for more than a couple of hours, I'm not particularly encouraged about availability. I'd go for CCI over Winchester ammo every time.

To satisfy my desire to have something new in hand for not a lot of money, I picked up a Chinese made Remington springer type air gun at a closeout price yesterday. While I realize we're not talking apples to apples, I can't avoid a comparison. For 79 bucks I got an air gun with a very decent wood stock - with nice checkering no less, nice blueing, fiber optic sights + the cheapest scope and rings they could fit in the box. (Crappy scope that I'll replace but it works for now.) It's hard to understand Savage's product when this air gun outclasses it in so many areas at a fraction of the price, and with no fuss at all is shooting short range groups that put my 17 wsm to shame. For starters, maybe Savage should get on the phone to China and drop 10 bucks a piece for some nicely finished rigid stocks rather than these plastic things that would disgrace an eight dollar toy gun.

 

[paulatgis]

went hunting yesterday and noticed while walking the barrel (safety actually) bouncing up and down. ****. the stock is flexing from front and rear. went to the range today to see if its still zeroed. my 223 with a Nikon scope nailed it on the first shot. the bmag ... is hog huntable for now but after the season closes ill put a scope back on and hit the 200 yard range.

 

[paulatgis]

hammer, company cfo and ceo are interested in growth- 8%. else invest elsewhere. where's the ammo growth? 22lr and 223, maybe 9mm in America. 17wsm is a pet project with maybe less than 1/4 of 1 percent if that. if you were a ceo would you even mention the 17 wsm in a board meeting?

 

[ericbc7]

I just picked up a stainless HB B-Mag 1:8 twist at Cabelas in Rogers MN. It has the WSM specific scope pre-installed. I won't be able to shoot it for a bit but in handling it I see that the bolt handle touches the scope on bolt lift. Are B-Mag owners seeing a lot of variation in how far bolt handles rotate?

 

[gmstack]

yeah, the ones with the plastic stock are junk. the newer ones with the wood stock could be better. I don't know. mine shot precisely like the pics. stacky

 

[g0rd0]

I just picked up a stainless HB B-Mag 1:8 twist at Cabelas in Rogers MN. It has the WSM specific scope pre-installed. I won't be able to shoot it for a bit but in handling it I see that the bolt handle touches the scope on bolt lift. Are B-Mag owners seeing a lot of variation in how far bolt handles rotate?

if the back of your bolt is flat good. But if the back of the bolt is almost canopied ( almost like a little hood over your thumb as you push the safty to fire ), then you need to contact savage with the ser number. There is a recall on some bmags.
As for your scope I had to go to a higher mount to allow handle clearance. And yes the plastic stock on my rifle is junk but it holds below 2" groups at 100 yards with 20 and 25 grn ammo from Winchester. I am quite happy with my rifle.

 

[ericbc7]

No worries, my B-Mag is a new one withe the new plain shroud. I have a Boyd's varmint stock which is not the drop I hoped for.
I am working on bedding the stock but from my perspective it's going to work out. I also have the glades bolt to replace the hateful factory one. I will bend it to fit.

The crazy thing is why is all this work required to make this cartridge work? The bmag was near $500 and judging bye its quality was overpriced by $200
We need CZ to come out with a 17wsm and I will buy it !

 

[B23]

No worries, my B-Mag is a new one withe the new plain shroud. I have a Boyd's varmint stock which is not the drop I hoped for.
I am working on bedding the stock but from my perspective it's going to work out. I also have the glades bolt to replace the hateful factory one. I will bend it to fit.

The crazy thing is why is all this work required to make this cartridge work? The bmag was near $500 and judging bye its quality was overpriced by $200
We need CZ to come out with a 17wsm and I will buy it !

I bought one of the HB SS Bmags last spring from a local gun shop for $335 and at the time Savage had a $30 mail-in rebate so ended costing me $305+tax.

The plastic stock, IMO, is a complete ***. Replaced it with a Boyd's Pro Varmint before I ever fired a single round through it. DIP Inc. had them in stock and they are a local company for me so I was able to have it that day. Dropped it off with my gunsmith to see what he could do about bedding it. These things are kind of a PITA to bed and you can only really bed them around the front action screw. They'd be VERY difficult to bed the rear screw. If you've had one of these apart you'll understand what I mean.

My gunsmith bed and installed the stock, mounted a 1 piece pic. rail (also bought from DIP Inc) and a set of Weaver Z rings for my 4.5-14x40 Leupold, cut 2 inches off the barrel and threaded it. When I dropped it off I gave him a box of American Eagle 20gr that I had already weight sorted. He sighted it in then shot two groups with it. When I picked up he told me the larger of the two groups was right at a 1/2 inch and thought it would probably get a little better once the barrel got more rounds through it.

By the time it was all done, so was sage rat season. I didn't get to shoot it a lot but even though there are a couple things about it I don't particularly care for, the little bugger shoots very well and now that it has a relatively decent stock, it feels very similar to my centerfires.

The factory bolt handle, IMO, is very unsightly and flat out fugly. Bought one of the Glades bolt handles to replace it with. The Glades bolt handle looks MUCH better but they aren't without their issues as well. IMO, the Glades is about 1/3 longer than it needs to be and because it's so long and a little to large in diameter, it makes it kind of awkward, even somewhat difficult, to get your finger into and on the trigger so I had the knob itself turned down to a smaller diameter as well as shortened and now it doesn't obstruct the trigger at all.

I'm seriously considering painting the barrel and action matte black with some hi temp engine paint but I haven't done it yet.