Salt Bath Annealing Doesn't Work! by AMP

[4SFED]

[QUOTE="4SFED,

I will be talking to the local test lab to see what it would cost to hardness test a couple of my own salt bath annealed cases.

Ask them about the Brinell test. There is even a portable Brinell tester that should be cheaper for them to perform.

https://www.worldoftest.com/portable-hardness-testers-handheld-hardness-testers

J E CUSTOM

I own a Rockwell hardness tester. The problem with the both Rockwell and Brinell hardness tests is that they are not valid on samples this small. The size of the indentation would be larger than the sample ... wider than case thickness if done on the section, and deeper than the thickness if done on the surface.

-jim

 

[ntsqd]

Because articles regarding brass annealing consistently state that quenching does not make any difference at all.

Other metals yes, brass no.

So, I don't quench.

Several other posts here mentioning the same.

Actually, it does make a difference, but not in the overall metallurgy. Where it makes a difference is in stopping the heat from annealing more of the case than desired. So you don't quench to achieve some particular property. You quench to stop the regionally desired property from propagating into a region where it is not desired. GeorgeS in the post above touched on this.

 

[raider1v1]

so whats the summary here after 9 pages? we throwing our salt systems in the trash? or are they still OK?

after reading this my thoughts are they are still ok.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Actually, it does make a difference, but not in the overall metallurgy. Where it makes a difference is in stopping the heat from annealing more of the case than desired. So you don't quench to achieve some particular property. You quench to stop the regionally desired property from propagating into a region where it is not desired. GeorgeS in the post above touched on this.

And, going back 4 pages ago to my first post on it, I have yet to see the process continue on down the case, ever. I stopped putting Tempilaq (400, 600 or 700) way down the side of the case because even when I intentionally run a case for a looooong time on the Bench Source and the mouth + shoulder are glowing red, the process never goes down the case. The odds of it going down the case when I anneal for a few seconds? Nonexistent.

Which gets back to my point - there is no reason to quench the cases when we anneal.
However, each of us may do as we like.

 

[ntsqd]

I will point out that a partial anneal will have occurred to at least the limit of the heat discoloration. In a long case this probably isn't a problem. In a short case it could be getting too close to the case head. So quench or not to quench is about limiting the process to the desired region.
Worst case: You got cases wet when you didn't need to.

 

[LongProng]

For salt bath users, don't forget quenching also removes the salt residue.

 

[jponto]

****

 

[bigedp51]

Salt Bath Annealing Doesn't Work! by AMP

Simple fix...............................Shoot the messenger.

 

[Don A Parsons]

As I mentioned with our test,,, we didn't test the brass metal since we're not funding that Rabbit hole...

Let's see,,, what other way could we check to see if its working...

Here's a simple way to find out...

Shoot 30 cases of all the same lot,,, salt dip 10,,, torch 10,,, and nothing for the last ten...

Take your Arbour Press with the hydro dial gauge and see what the """over all spread of the 3 groups of brass take for inch lbs to seat the boolitz...

Simple easy fast...

PS: Make sure all the necks are the same thickness using a ball mike...

This is how we found out that the torch method works...

We would of done a salt dip test on the brass,,, but we don't have access to one.

 

[J E Custom]

I own a Rockwell hardness tester. The problem with the both Rockwell and Brinell hardness tests is that they are not valid on samples this small. The size of the indentation would be larger than the sample ... wider than case thickness if done on the section, and deeper than the thickness if done on the surface.




There are different broaches for both, but the Brinell is normally used on softer materials. with different broaches, different pressures are used.

just like the Vickers test, a cross section is plenty thick for testing.

The reason I recommended the Brinell was because of cost. if you use the Rockwell test equipment you have to use the recommended scale for the material to be tested. Here are the different scales = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale#Scales_and_values

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Because articles regarding brass annealing consistently state that quenching does not make any difference at all.

Other metals yes, brass no.

So, I don't quench.

Several other posts here mentioning the same.

I only know what works best for me. I don't really care if a person quenches or not, I just try to pass on what works for me.

Also I don't rely on articles written buy someone I don't know, and don't know how much experience they have with something i worked with for over 40 years. This does not by any means make me the expert, but I know the benefits of quenching and have explained it more than once. I do a lot of things that some people say is not necessary because they don't want to take the extra time. I would not do it if it did not make a difference.

I here this all the time, but I will keep doing things that makes a difference no mater how little. An improvement is still an improvement. Some of us are picky and don't mind going the extra mile. others don't care and that's fine also. I was trained by a bench rest shooter/builder, and he left no stone upturned. The devil is in the details.

J E CUSTOM

 

[raider1v1]

How did we derail to quenching? I thought the thread was about salt annealing?

Did we hear from Gary yet?

 

[ntsqd]

Quenching can be an integral part of the whole annealing process. That's how it keeps being talked about.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I only know what works best for me. I don't really care if a person quenches or not, I just try to pass on what works for me.

Also I don't rely on articles written buy someone I don't know, and don't know how experience they have with something i worked with for over 40 years. This does not by any means make me the expert,
but I know the benefits of quenching and have explained it more than once. I do a lot of things that some people say is not necessary because they don't want to take the extra time. I would do it if it did not make a difference.

I here this all the time, but I will keep doing things that makes a difference no mater how little. An improvement is still an improvement. Some of us are picky and don't mind going the extra mile. others don't care and that's fine also. I was trained by a bench rest shooter/builder, and he left no stone upturned. The devil is in the details.

J E CUSTOM

I'm not trying to yank your chain too much here, just providing another point of view. I hope you understand that.

I'm very picky as well, and will go the extra mile... I just have to be sure it's worth the walk.