i'm the only one who thinks all this ladder testing is such a waste of bullets, powder and barrel.
Until you put your gun in a MACHINE rest, like the old Ransom, no one will, I should say (MOST) people cant shoot 5 rounds exactly the same.
in my worthless opinion, you're there. The Havoc is a great rifle and should shoot factory match ammo in .75 or less. If you REALLY want better, you should have saved up another $2-3K and built a complete custom rifle. You might get to .50 MOA or less
I wound find a range out to at least 500yrds, see what she does then. If you can CONSISTENTLY shoot MOA groups you will be fine for any game you want to play
get your muzzle Vel, build you ballistic drop chart and start twisting turrets,
just my .02
No, you're not the only one, buzz... NeedforSpeed wants to shoot deer in Florida at a maximum range of 300 yards. Yes, he's BEYOND "there" already. All of the preceding advice is fine and dandy if you're going to make loads for competition or hunting shots beyond 500 yards. The only thing I'd change if it were me would be the brass if it wasn't initially fired in THAT rifle. The fact you got it to chamber without a hassle says alot for your reloading skills already. One thing nobody has mentioned is that you need to be checking your brass AFTER any sizing you do with a concentricity gauge. Any runout in the neck BEFORE loading greater than .003" is going to equate to larger groups than would otherwise be possible with more concentric necks. Turning necks isn't the answer. You'll simply end up with a thinner non-concentric neck. Sometimes full length sizing can get out enough runout to qualify the piece as accuracy capable. Sometimes it makes it worse, or makes very food new brass junk by imparting .005" or more. If I know I have really good concentric brass ala Lapua, Norma, or Nosler, I will only run the sizing button in far enough to take imperfections out of the case mouth. However you do it, you also need to impart consistent neck tension by using either a bushing die OR the easiest and cheapest way is to get a Lee factory crimp die and crimp every round AFTER running your loaded rounds through a Hornady concentricity gauge. This is different than the original gauge we used to check the brass necks. I use the Sinclair gauge for that. The Hornady machine checks concentricity up on the bullet shank between the case mouth where it's seated and its ogive. Then, it has a mechanism to correct the runout (if any, given you started with good consistent cases). I correct to .001" or less. So the LAST step is to set final neck tension with the crimp die. I like this method best because with a bushing die, you impart tension BEFORE seating the bullet. Because of metallurgical properties of the brass, this may or may not give you exact and even tension on every case. If you like Hornady brass, that's fine. Hornady has improved on their QC in the past couple of years. You'll just have to go through more cases to find 5 that are both under .003" of neck runout and within a grain (or half grain, whatever your limit) of weight of each other to make a group. BTW, weight sorting is important for small groups, too. It's not as important as concentricity (proven by experimentation), but does matter when weights drift farther than a grain among a group of cases. Lastly, use IMR 4451 taking 1 grain off each charge you fired and try the groups again. As a matter of fact, do that before you do anything else I've suggested so we can do our 1 variable at a time. Then go back to your H4350 and try the considerations I've mentioned. Then use the techniques I described with IMR 4451. Finally, do yourself a HUGE favor if you're going to keep that 6.5 Creedmoor and invest in a good supply of Norma 203B. Simply changing powders will cut your group size down like all the good techniques listed in this thread combined. You'll need to reduce charge about 3 grains from your listed H4350 loads, but once you find max, you're eyes will pop when you see the difference over the chrono AND on the target. 203B is the only powder I've ever seen that will guarantee you your best group with about any cartridge and bullet combination appropriate for its burn rate. Somehow this powder creates a node in every barrel I've shot it in with perhaps one exception that I can think of. You will use way less of it and achieve higher velocity and better groups even if you do nothing else differently. If you try IMR 4451 and Norma 203B, even without purchasing the 2 concentricity gauges or changing brass, or setting consistent neck tension, you'll start to grin when you see paper and chrono readings. I like the ProChrono personally, and if you don't use a chronograph, you'll never appreciate the difference in what I'm telling you. This is something I'm not asking you to take my word for, but something you can prove on your own range.
But lastly, don't forget that any changes you make beyond this point to your loading techniques and any subsequent range sessions to test different components is totally unnecessary to your stated goal. You have already demonstrated accuracy more than capable to killing deer at 300 yards. Anything else you do is simply to satisfy your desire to get all those 5 holes on top of each other on that paper target on the range and will have no bearing on your ultimate purpose. And when you see the difference I'm telling you you'll see doing what I've recommended, you can wonder if I'm such a genious or if your barrel just broke in to its "sweet spot". Because I'm here to tell you, the more you shoot and clean that new rifle, the better it's going to shoot out to a certain point. You may have reached that point, but I doubt it. In other words, your rifle will become more accurate with a little time and proper cleaning rituals.
Consistent brass fireformed in that chamber or new,
Brass case neck concentricity less than .003",
Weight sorted brass to no more than a grain variation in a group,
Mechanically "straightened" rounds using a Hornady concentricity tool,
Consistent neck tension on loaded rounds with Lee factory crimp die,
Use of IMR 4451 and Norma 203B
These are steps for you to get a tighter group and/or a faster group; however, they will not allow you to kill a deer any deader than you can already do with exactly what you have now.
I don't like wasting time and money at the range. You'll be half way to another barrel if you try to employ all the rhetoric contained herein. If you like shooting and tinkering trying to fix something that ain't broken enough, then go for it! Do get a chrono to calculate exact trajectory and energy and to compare the results of the 2 "super powders" I turned you on to- not because you need to concern yourself with extreme spread if keeping shots 400 yards and under. I'll go ahead and say "you're welcome!"
Best of the West in Austin, Texas. 1000 yard range and you have to qualify to shoot over 250. Some idiot was shooting a 50cal and launching projectiles into houses is why.
